Laibach: When they banned Laibach, we said 'great, let's move further'!

Laibach recently released an extended box: ‘Laibach Revisited’. It is a reissue of their anonymous first album of 1985, augmented with new recordings of the songs and a number of essays about the role of Laibach in Yugoslavia and the Slovenian Republic in the eighties. We were able to interview Laibach several times in the past, but we thought it would be interesting to concentrate solely on their work of the eighties in this interview. Head ideologue Ivan Novak was so friendly to answer our questions.

When you started the band in 1980, did you already have an elaborate idea of the concept of the band? What were your aims back then?

Laibach: We actually did have a general idea that we calibrated between the years 1980 - 1982, when we finally conceptualise it with the 10 Items of the Convent (sometimes also translated as the 10 Items of the Covenant).  Our aims were to create a group that would be more than just a plain rock band, a group, bigger and independent from any genre, a group that would learn from history and define the future. On the side we also wanted to create a movement and a country, our own state - which we partially did.   

Your first show in 1980 in Trbovlje was prohibited, and for a while nothing was heard of Laibach. In 1982, Laibach returned to the forefront with several concerts. What made it possible that Laibach survived in these first years?

The Yugoslav army. All of us went to the - then still compulsory - army service between 1980 and 1981. As soon as the first members returned from it, the band started with shows. Others joined as soon as they finished their service. The Yugoslav Army gave us food, gave us boots and uniforms, some sense of resistance, and plenty of ideas.

The ‘Ten Items Of The Convent’ were published in Nova revija in 1983. Nova revija was known as a dissident cultural journal and later played a role in the rising national sentiment in Slovenia. Was the text intended to be published by Nova revija? What attracted you to this magazine?

When Nova revija was established in 1982, the editorial board wrote a program, a manifest, in which they stated that they would not act as an ‘action in the name of an Idea’.  We have therefore immediately titled our contribution exactly as an ‘Action in the name of an Idea’. The Nova revija editorial board hesitated to publish our contribution, but philosopher Taras Kermauner insisted that the article should be published no matter what and he proposed to write a kind of editorial essay on Laibach along with our contribution. Which he did, and to this day his text is still one of the most lucid interpretations of Laibach. Soon after our manifest was released in Nova revija, the authorities banned Laibach for several years, but Nova revija was able to publish a more radical content from then on.

In the text ‘The Terror Of History’, that is included in the ‘Laibach Revisited’-box, we learn about the Nazi-punk scandal in Slovenia at the beginning of the 80s. What was the scandal about? In what ways did the scandal and the repression surrounding it affect Laibach?

In short Nazi-punk scandal was an on-going series of events, connected to the Slovenian punk and alternative or sub-cultural movement, of which Laibach was important part of in the first half of the 80s.  The authorities were trying to suppress the whole scene, presenting and accusing it as a movement propagating Nazi ideas. Some bands were dismantled, some people were jailed and Laibach was banned.

The TV Tednik interview – at the end of which the interviewer called for action against Laibach – is very famous. Some say it was a trap, and I believe you went into that trap well aware of the danger. Why did you agree to do the interview?

We were offered the prime time on one of the two most watched TV programmes in that time, so we decided to do it. We knew it was a trap. We wanted to create a kind of ‘living theatre performance’ and at the same time ‘trapped the trapper’.  Which we did. The interview was then very important for the general development of the critical scene in the whole country. People like Slavoj Žižek and many other young intellectuals appeared on the scene after this interview and started to roll the ball of social, cultural and political changes. The interview was like a kind of ignition coil for artistic and political ideas in the 80s.

When the city of Ljubljana banned the name Laibach, how did you react?

We said ‘great, let’s move further’. We immediately decided to get out of Slovenia and start organising the ‘Occupied Europe Tour’. 

Was it easy to continue touring Europe during the ban on the name Laibach? Did this have repercussions at home?

It was difficult to tour Europe, because we had no experience at all and also hardly any money. And Europe then was still deeply in the Cold War, divided by the wall. Plus it was very much a shitty place.  Back at home they were happy just to get rid of us and they didn’t care what we were doing elsewhere.

Was the creation of Neue Slowensische Kunst in 1984 a reaction to the ban on the name Laibach? How was it possible to make such a move while you could not use your name?

Yes, it was greatly the result of the ban of Laibach. Neue Slowenische Kunst was a movement of a several groups from different media that were inspired by Laibach and when we decided to start working together, Laibach was the central inspiration for the whole movement. The name was based on the historical Slovenian avant-garde movement from the 1920s, presented in the German magazine Der Sturm in 1929 under the name ‘Junge slowenische Kunst’.

Although the name was forbidden, Laibach played a concert in Ljubljana in 1984 and released the first LP in 1985, only by advertising the famous black cross that was your symbol. I guess this meant that Laibach was sufficiently known within the public and the population to make it a success. How were the reactions?

Yes, we did the anonymous concert, announced only with our symbol - the black cross -, which was not forbidden. Therefore everything was basically legal. And also our first album was released without our name, again only with the black cross as the central image.  This was a nice prove about the power that the symbol can represent.  The concert was totally sold out and reactions were, of course, also very enthusiastic and positive.

In 1987, you asked for a removal of the ban on the name Laibach. Was it easy to achieve?

We didn’t ask for removal of the ban ourselves; it was a public demand, spread from the alternative circles. In fact the demand was in the end concretised by the Union of Socialist Youth of Slovenia (abbreviated ZSMS) that was a legal (pro-communist) political organization of young people in Slovenia that operated from the post-war years until the 1990s.

Also in 1987, there was the poster scandal. A poster made by Novi kolektivizem – a design studio connected to NSK – for the Youth Day and the birthday celebrations of Tito turned out to be a reworking of an old Nazi poster. At first, the authorities thought of suing Novi kolektivizem, but they later dropped the charges. What happened?

Novi kolektivizem (New Collectivism) is an NSK design group, created by Laibach, Irwin and additional collaborators, practicing in their work a Laibachian method, motives and aesthetics.  The whole Youth Day poster scandal was described many times and you can read it here.  There’s more to it of course but it’s a long story. It is impossible to make it much shorter.  The whole scandal rapidly turned the course of political events in 2^nd half of the 80s in Yugoslavia.   

‘Opus Dei’, your record from 1987, had a big international impact. But it also had its controversies. If I’m not mistaken, there was court action in Germany because of suspicions of Nazi sympathies. Can you tell us what happened?

When Opus Dei was released, the German wing of Opus Dei, a controversial militant catholic organisation, asked for the album to be forbidden and also wanted to sue Laibach for using the name of their organisation as the title of the album. They had several problems with the album, including the four axes swastika, which we used on the inner sleeve. But this swastika was nothing else than a quote from one of the biggest anti-Nazi artist and activist John Heartfield, so they had to drop the charges on Nazism. And the name ‘Opus Dei’ we also used because the leading song on the album was a remake of a famous ‘Live is Life’ song, written by Austrian group Opus. In the end album was still sold in Germany, but under the counter.        

Laibach: website / order the 'Laibach Revisited' box

Jihad - Retrospekt (CD review)

Genre: dark electro

Label: none (self-released)

Rating: 8,5/10

In late 2015, I reviewed the live album 'Live In Bratislava 28.02.2015 - Dark EBM Souls' of the American dark electro act Jihad. It concerned the live recording of a very good performance which I had attended earlier that year at an old-school electro festival in Slovakia. Jihad, which has been the solo project of James Mendez for a considerable amount of time, has an interesting history that I had also covered back then. I am not going to repeat it here, but I gladly refer you to my review, where you will find the relevant background information. The crowd at Dark EBM Souls had the privilege to witness 2 exclusive tracks, '(I Can't) Let Go' and 'Visions', which have finally gotten a studio release after more than 5 years, along with 8 other new tracks. The result is 'Retrospekt', the first real album of Jihad in almost 25 years.

This release had been shaped over a very long period of time and this is something you can hear. There is a clear distinction between the classic 90s dark electro sound in the "older" tracks 'The Prophecy' and 'Degree Of (Im)Morality' and the more mellow and contemporary sound in the "newer" tracks. The aforementioned "older" songs are the highlight of the album and I am sure that I am not the only one who sees it this way. I was already familiar with 'The Prophecy' from 'EAR Mixtape Volume 1', a digital compilation by Electro Aggression Records which I reviewed in 2013. This track was thoroughly reworked and the final version on 'Retrospekt' is even better than its predecessor in my opinion. On a side note, the artwork on the album sleeve somewhat reminds me of the 'Terminator' theme of this song. 'Degree Of (Im)Morality', in its turn, contains certain references to Christianity and is a lovely and highly melodic dark electro song. I hope that James will play it live someday, but I think there is a bigger chance that 'The Prophecy' will be included in the setlist of his future shows. Not that you will hear me complain.

Regarding the "newer" tracks, my preference goes to '(I Can't) Let Go'. It was my favorite during the DEBMS show in 2015 and I am happy that this beautiful, emotional song is available in a studio version at last. Even though it is the longest track on the album with its duration of more than 8 minutes, it does not get boring for a second. Both 'Matter Of Perspective' and 'Twin Stranger' have an unmistakable 80s vibe, which is not that strange when you know that James is a 80s kid who has a preference for the pop music of that decade (I know he is a big fan of Tears for Fears and Duran Duran). The latter track, which deals with doppelgangers, has a cool dynamic with respect to composition and lyrics. Another song with an intriguing text (partly in dialogue form) is 'The Patron God Of Embalmers', for which James has found inspiration in the ancient Egyptian religion and more specifically the symbolism regarding Anubis, the lord of the underworld.

The only tracks that do not appeal to me as much are the rather monotonous 'We Believe' and the instrumental 'Origins' (I am not too fond of instrumentals in general). But let it be clear: this album is really well-made and absolutely worth listening to. As it is not a classic dark electro record in the strict sense of the word, I am curious to see how it will be received by the old-school electro crowd. But being a member of the so-called European dark electro family myself (it is a small but fanatic club), I do not think that James needs to worry.

Whoever is interested can purchase the album on Bandcamp (digital version) or contact Martin Sane of Fïx8:Sëd8, who is in charge of the physical distribution in Europe.

CD review: Marjolein Laenen

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Exponentia / Zauber / Résonance magnétique: Je n'ai pas plaisir à sortir à l'extérieur, dans le monde dit ‘réel’.

Ludovic Dhenry est quelqu’un de très occupé. Il vient de sortir le cinquième disque de son projet néoclassique Exponentia. Le premier en quatre ans, mais cela dépend aussi du fait qu'il a aussi un projet électro avec Zauber, et fait de l’industriel ambiant avec Résonance Magnétique. Nous pensions qu'il était temps de mettre de l’ordre dans tout ça ...

Nous avons beaucoup aimé le dernier disque d’Exponentia. C’est le premier disque en quatre ans, et c’est un EP qui ne contient que 5 morceaux. Pourquoi si peu après si longtemps ?

Cela est dû au fait que j'ai travaillé sur d'autres projets musicaux, durant cette période j'ai réalisé un album de Zauber, puis un autre de Résonance magnétique. Avant de commencer la composition de mon 11e album, j'ai eu envie de travailler sur un format différent. Un album est structuré d'une certaine manière, le format EP implique de penser différemment cette structure. Quelque chose de plus condensé. J'ai pensé cette structure avec 2 titres instrumentaux, comme pour ‘ouvrir’ et ‘fermer’ une parenthèse contenant 3 titres très calmes, très mélancoliques. Un nouvel album d'Exponentia est prévu pour cette année.

Y a-t-il une thématique sur le disque ‘Du wirst sein’ ?

Mes textes sont toujours des petites histoires sombres se déroulant dans un monde imaginaire, Fantasy. Dans lequel on peut rencontrer des créatures, des anges, des vampires, des sorcières, des dragons... C'est un monde magique, les arbres saignent, les morts ressuscitent parfois... J'aime la Fantasy en romans, films et jeux video, avec Exponentia, j'apporte cette partie de moi dans ma musique. Quand je compose de la musique, j'ai toujours dans mon esprit ce monde imaginaire.

La thématique de ce EP est la mort et la tristesse que cela implique.  Ceci est souligné par la musique lente et calme du disque. Avec une touche de frénésie sur le titre finale ‘Le navire des âmes’, exprimant dans mon imaginaire le voyage des morts vers un autre monde, comme une touche d'espoir pour d'éventuelles retrouvailles. Avec ce titre, les âmes partent et le disque s'achève.

Les guitares qui étaient proéminentes sur ‘Abend’ ont disparues. Pourquoi ?

Concernant l'instrumentation, de par son style musical, Exponentia n'est pas figé avec une règle stricte comme pour d'autres styles musicaux où la guitare est indispensable, comme pour le rock par exemple. Je peux donc utiliser un large spectre d'instruments, en changeant selon les albums. Je pense beaucoup aux synthétiseurs pour le futur, mais aussi aux guitares... Ce qui est le point central, et qui donc ne changera pas, sont les instruments de musique classique.

Parlons un peu de tes autres projets. Zauber a sorti un magnifique disque en 2017 : ‘Weg der Seelen’. Zauber était ton premier groupe. Qu’est-ce qui t’a amené à t’accrocher à ce projet ?

Merci pour le compliment. J'ai toujours aimé l'electro goth, avec des groupes comme Seelenkrank, Die Form, Ghosting et d'autres.  J'ai parfois envie de composer ce style de chansons qui ne fonctionneraient pas dans un album d'Exponentia. Alors je compose pour Zauber.

Je trouve aussi que le son de Zauber est devenu plus symphonique par rapport à ces débuts. Est-ce l’influence d’Exponentia sur ton projet electro ?

Je pense que oui. On ressent quelque chose comme ça à l'écoute, dans la manière d'amener les choses, les arrangements. La musique classique a pris beaucoup d'importance en moi. Chacun évolue et je pense qu'inévitablement cela doit se ressentir dans Zauber.

En 2019, tu sortais l’album ‘Sign’ de Résonance Magnétique. Quelle est ta motivation pour faire cette musique électronique purement instrumentale ?

J'ai ressenti le besoin de créer des ambiances, des atmosphères, pour une musique qui s'écoute en fond sonore. Des chansons avec des arrangements symphoniques, un chant, des couplets... n'auraient pas pu créer cette atmosphère ambiante, cette présence dans votre maison qui s'installe au fur et à mesure que les titres s'enchaînent.

Sur ‘Sign’ comme sur son prédécesseur ‘Revoke’, j’ai remarqué une véritable évolution au cours du disque, comme si tu voulais nous faire voyager d’une atmosphère à une autre pendant l’écoute de l’album. C’était une idée préconçue ?

Oui et non. Ou plutôt Non pour ‘Revoke’ et oui pour ‘Sign’. Lors de la composition de ‘Revoke’, ce n'était pas préconçu, mais c'est devenu inévitable au fur et à mesure que j'avançais dans les démos. Je voulais composer un disque indus rythmique très sombre mais aussi ambiant. Pour que tout s'enchaîne de façon naturelle, les sonorités et l'ambiance ressentie ont été créées comme étant commune aux titres, ce qui a favorisé l'unité de l'album. A la fin, la tracklist a été pensée pour que l'enchaînement des titres rythmiques et des titres ambiant soit cohérent. Pour l'album ‘Sign’, mon expérience passée a permis à que tout soit pensé d'avance.

Certains de tes disques sortent en CD, d’autres seulement en format digital. Quelle est ta politique en ce qui concerne les formats ?

Dans un monde idéal, je sortirais tous mes albums en CD. Malheureusement, nous vivons dans un monde où le marché du disque n'est plus ce qu'il était. Actuellement ce n'est plus possible pour moi.

Dans une interview, tu racontes que tu sortais souvent en Belgique. Je suppose que c’était du temps du Steeple à Waregem, une salle qui a malheureusement disparue depuis de années. Quels souvenirs as-tu de cette place mythique ?

Oui, c'était du temps du Steeple à Waregem. Ce que je peux dire de ce lieu mythique c'est que c'était pour moi les meilleurs soirées goth ! C'était comme une seconde maison, on se sentait chez soi là-bas.

Je pense que les souvenirs que j'ai de ces soirées s'entendent dans ma musique,

étant donné que l'ambiance qui y régnait et les groupes de musique qui étaient diffusés m'ont influencé, indéniablement.  A l'époque, je composais des démo mais je n'avais jamais sorti d'album. Je me souviens que la démo du titre Zauber ‘Euphoria’ passait régulièrement là bas. C'était pour moi une satisfaction d'entendre ma chanson parmi les groupes de musiques cultes que j'aime.

Selon la même interview, tu vivrais comme un reclus en composant ta musique. Comment fais-tu ? Je suppose que tu ne peux pas vivre de ta musique ?

Effectivement je ne vis pas de ma musique car sans distributeur, c'est forcément difficile d'être connu de la scène gothique de nos jours. D'ailleurs, je remercie vivement Dark Entries, webzine qui a le mérite de tenir et couvrir cette scène alternative et qui s'intéresse à mes projets depuis mes débuts.

Je vis avec une personne qui me laisse vivre ma passion pour la musique gothique et nous nous suffisons avec des besoins modestes. Je n'ai pas plaisir à sortir à l'extérieur, dans le monde dit ‘réel’. J’aurais l'impression d'y perdre mon temps, ce serait une contrainte. J'ai très peu de contact avec des personnes, ce n'est pas dans ma nature,  je ne m'y sens pas à l'aise. Ma plus grande satisfaction de vie est d'être dans mon home-studio pour écrire de la musique, et même si je ne suis pas reconnu, j'en composerai toujours, je ne pourrais pas arrêter ce processus créatif qui doit sortir de moi.

Quels sont tes projets pour l’avenir ?

Je compte me consacrer exclusivement à Exponentia, en y incluant l'ambiance des mes autres projets, parfois sous forme de paysages sonores ambiants sur certains titres, peut être aussi sous forme de remix electro. L'écriture du prochain album vient de commencer, on verra où cela va m'emporter.

Y a-t-il une chance qu’on te voie encore jouer en live avec un de tes projects ?

Non, je ne pense pas.

Exponentia: bandcamp / facebook

Zauber: bandcamp / facebook

Résonance magnétique: bandcamp / facebook

Laibach: Laibach Revisited

It is finally here. The box that I already ordered in 2018 took almost two years to arrive. It was also pricey - 150 euros - so I'm glad I can hold it in my hands. But the band has been working on it for more than two years. The idea originated almost 10 years ago and was supposed to be released in 2012. Later, that became 2015, then 2018, 2019 and finally 2020.

‘Laibach Revisited’ is an elaborate addition to the first Laibach record from 1985, and consists of 3 CDs, two booklets and a pin in a box, all beautifully designed in a memorable Laibach style. In the early years of the group, Laibach was an absolute sensation in Slovenia, then still a republic of Yugoslavia. The name referred to Ljubljana, the capital of Slovenia, but in German.

‘To call a group Laibach Art in a nation that arose exclusively out of struggle - ultimately war - against German political and cultural expansionism (not just the Nazis) is, to say the least, scandalous. No greater Dadaist twist could be possible. The name of the group is it's most successful poetic idea,’ said Slovenian writer and philosopher Taras Kermauner, as the name was reminiscent of the Austrian occupation and - even worse - the Nazi occupation of Slovenia during World War II, and all it’s horrors.

Laibach’s first performance - along with an exhibition, a film screening, and three other bands - in their hometown of Trbolvje was banned as soon as the group posted gloomy posters in the city. The application for the concert was not formulated correctly, the authorities argued. The group would later claim that the performance was a test of the Slovenes’ positive awareness - as there had been a few government tests before - and that the performance was intended to be banned.

After their military service, Laibach returned to the front, but their first performance in Ljubljana in 1982 immediately provoked reaction. ‘Is it possible that someone permitted, here in Ljubljana, the first hero city of Yugoslavia, a youth group to take a name that forcefully unearths bitter memories of… Laibach,’ said a protest letter. A letter that the group then conveniently played out. Because negative publicity is also publicity, isn't it?

More publicity followed. Laibach went even further at a performance in Zagreb. They managed to mix propaganda films with speeches by Tito - the former president of Yugoslavia, who died a month before the band was formed - with porn images. The organizers promptly stopped the performance and distanced themselves from the band without hesitations.

Some say that a trap was set for Laibach afterwards. But even if it was a trap, the band fell into it consciously and with open eyes. Laibach was invited to an interview on TV Tednik, where they simply continued their totalitarian image and absurd statements. The interviewer concluded with a call: ‘maybe someone will finally act and stop these dangers, these terrible ideas and statements here in Ljubljana.’

Thus, the city of Ljubljana brought up an old decree stating that it was forbidden to use the name of the city - even in its German variant - without permission. The name Laibach was banned from now on. However, the group managed to perform in 1984 without mentioning its name. On the cover of the group's debut, also, we can only see the black cross - within which a tormented individual was wallowing - the symbol of the group, without the mention of the name.

It is this record that we commemorate with this edition. Most of the material was recorded in 1983. Some songs had already been released abroad. Even though the name was banned in Yugoslavia, the group could safely tour Europe under its own name. Given the difficulties, the vinyl debut in Yugoslavia was released only in 1985.

The new box contains this record, but ... actually the content corresponds more to ‘Rekapitulacija 1980-84’, which was released at about the same time in Germany on Walter Ulbricht Schallfolien as a double LP and thus contained much more material than the original record, with songs that were recorded in 1984 and 1985. So you get the maximum content. (And even if you search and think you're missing some song or bonus, those are included in the digital downloads included with this release.)

The first CD from this box contains the reissue. It opens - like both records on which it is based - with ‘Cari amici’, a recording from the aforementioned performance in Ljublijana in 1982 on which the then singer of Laibach - Tomaž Hostnik, who committed suicide in 1982 – gave an imitation of Mussolini. The photo showing Hostnik with a bleeding chin - after he had a bottle thrown at his head, and just continued the show - is very famous.

The record also contains very sophisticated noise, which sounds surprisingly good for the time and circumstances in which it was recorded. We hear all kinds of percussion, guitars, but especially a lot of sound manipulation and synths that make the whole sound absolutely ominous. Rhythms are slow, the music atonal and saturated with effects. In short, the oppressive noise of industrial alienation and totalitarian terror.

The lyrics - completely in Slovenian at that time - also sound dark. They expose the contradictions of communism, for example through quotes from Tito (in ‘Država’, a song that lists positive state responsibilities, in stark contrast to the chilling music) and ‘Jaruzelski’ (the Polish general who declared a state of emergency and was responsible for strong repression in 1981). They speak of the bright future they face (‘Sila’, ‘Brat moj’), or of courage and self-sacrifice (until death, as in ‘Ti, Ki Izzivaš’).

The second CD from the box is called ‘Revisited’. It contains renewed versions of the old songs, which were recorded between 2009 and 2012. In the meantime, I have heard these versions live several times, and I was always very impressed. I am therefore happy to finally have it on CD. The songs have obviously been played by musicians who are much better than the ones on the original recordings, and the recordings themselves are excellent.

The new recordings are very different from the originals. The voice of Milan Fras sounds much heavier, the avant-garde piano by Sašo Vollmaier makes it even more ominous, the electronic programming of Luka Jamnik is fuller, the screams of Mina Špiler go through the bone, the drums of Janez Gabrič are more varied… The album also contains some songs that would not appear on the debut album, but only on 'Nova Akropola' in 1986, such as ‘Vier Personen’ and ‘Nova Akropola’. Additionally, you get some more recent live versions with orchestra, including one from the performance of Laibach in the Bozar in 2016 that we could attend.

The third CD contains live recordings, recorded underground in an old mine that was converted into a museum, at a depth of 200 meters. What makes it exceptional are the three founding members of Laibach who participate: Ivan Novak - who rarely plays live despite his important role - and Dejan Knez - a long-time core member who is no longer active in the group, but is responsible of vocals and bass on this record - and finally Srečko Bajda, who played with Laibach in the early 1980s. The record is dedicated to Boško Bursać, who made the recordings and died in 2016. It includes a flaming version of ‘Siemens-Rdeči molk’, a mix of ancient songs played during their first performances, but never recorded in studio. You will also hear drawn-out and psychedelic versions of the songs you already heard on the other two CDs.

And it is not done yet. The edition also contains a book with various texts about Laibach. To begin with, the already known ‘10 items of the covenant,’ which is the manifesto Laibach published in 1983 to outline it's strategy. It contains quotes such as ‘Laibach analyzes the relationship between ideology and culture in a late phase, as proposed in art’, ‘art and totalitarianism are not mutually exclusive’ and ‘all art can become the object of political manipulation, except art that speaks the same language as the manipulation’. Laibach claims to have always adhered to the principles of the manifesto, for which they kept finding new applications.

The second text is the central and longest from the edition. It is called ‘The Terror Of History. How Laibach Shook the State, the Party and Philosophy at the Beginning of the Eighties’ by Marcel Štefančič Jr. It is quite a heavy text, full of quotes and enumerations that are not always explained in detail. It contains more considerations than facts, and may be inaccessible to those who do not already have a certain level of knowledge, including about thinkers such as Slavoj Žižek and Jacques Lacan.

The early 1980s were a time of high inflation and high unemployment in Yugoslavia. Punk and Laibach were excellent lightning rods for the economic crisis. The Slovenian republic was strict on punk (albeit less strict than other communist countries). In 1983, Laibach promoter Igor Vidmar - the man who also writes a preface here for the record he first released in 1985 - was held in custody for a month for wearing suspicious badges (a Dead Kennedy's badge with a swastika crossed out was mistaken as a pro-nazi sign).

However, Laibach confused everyone. Punk could be criticized as a foreign influence, but what should critics think of Laibach? Dissidents could be branded as dangerous to the state, but what to do with a group that proclaimed they wanted to strengthen the state? And were especially secretive about their true ideas? ‘Laibach does not work as an answer, but as a question,’ said Žižek. And those questions kept piling up, while Laibach's true nature remained a mystery.

The last text from the book is by Milan Kučan. He is the man who led Slovenia to independence in 1991, when reform of Yugoslavia seemed impossible, and was president of the new republic from 1992 to 2002. It is a speech given by Kučan at the opening of an exhibition by Laibach in Trbovlje in 2010, exactly 30 years after the group's very first prohibited exhibition in the same place. He also emphasizes that Laibach provoked negative reactions because the work of the group was so difficult to understand. That he gave the speech shows that, today, Laibach is recognized in the highest circles in Slovenia.

So much for the content. The box and booklets are beautifully designed, with numerous works of art displayed in a unified style. The box shows once again that Laibach is one of the most intellectually challenging bands on the planet, and that the group's musical oeuvre may be difficult to fathom, but is definitely worth it.

Order the Laibach box here

Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio: It's necessary to have events such as Porta Nigra!

With Let's Play (Two Girls & A Goat) Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio delivered again a real masterpiece. Singer and mastermind Tomas Petterson even described it as "the final version" of his project.

In a few months they will return to Aarschot, to headline the Porta Nigra festival.

DE: Tomas, it took you six years to write the songs of Let’s Play, in the meantime you’ve released the double album Vision:Libertine. How come the proces took so long? Was it a just a case of perfection?

TP: The process of Let’s Play started immediately after I finished Song 4 Hate & Devotion in 2010, this is how I normally do things. I find myself inside a state of creative high and things just flow, and this time too. Two years after S4H&D we release 4Play to serve as the appetizer for the Let’s Play, we record the video in Russia and the process is moving according to plan. At this point OOL have been informed, the video has been recorded, there are plans for photos, the EP out, and then suddenly, we are pregnant with our second child. So we come to the conclusion that we have two options, either we release the album as planned but without the promotional photos we had in mind at the time, and without supporting concerts, and simply hope that the album doesn’t disappear into a medial and social void. Or we decide that this album is good enough to put on hold and we simply wait and hope its actually good enough to release at another time when the time is right and the stars are aligned. Evidently we decided on option number two. But in the aftermath of this decision I felt frustrated. We no longer had an estimate on when we would release a new album and when people would have a chance to hear some of the best songs we had ever created, so in frustration and delusion I sat down and created Vision:Libertine. But the most unexpected outcome of Vision:Libertine however was that I evolved and improved as producer, as a singer and a as a musician, so the material that I once felt was the best I ever did, didn’t sound as good as I remembered when I finally returned to it, so instead of embracing Let’s Play and unconditionally releasing it a year or two after Vision:Libertine, I decided to deconstruct the album, remix it, re-sing it, and perfect it to the point that it was a worthy successor and as good as always thought it was. And this is why things took more time than expected.

DE: About Let’s Play you’ve said you see it as the final version of ORE, which also sounds a bit alarming as in: I’ve got nothing more to say. Something the fans don’t want to hear, so we hope this is just a wrong interpretation of your words?

 

TP: Whether or not “Let’s Play” will be our final album or not remains to be seen, but I doubt it. I have felt hesitant on more than a few occasions, about whether or not I see the end of Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio. But every time I do, I successively come to the conclusion that it would be absurd to MAKE such a decision. It would be like consciously deciding to cut of both my hands because I don’t want to cook anymore, or both my feet because I’m tired of walking. I can’t deliberately make that decision. ORE is who I am; it’s who Rose and I are. Without it I would become half a person. But at the same time I must consider the possibility. Everything ends, everything more or less, has an expiration date. So what I was trying to say in the press-release is that with Let’s Play, I think I have taken the idea of Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio and the notion apocalyptic pop as far as I can. From here I find it hard to advance further on that particular path without imitating myself, and at length becoming a caricature of ourselves. So what I’m trying to say is that maybe it’s time to reinvent ORE and possibly commence a new journey on a new path where rules can be entirely abolished? To advance into regression and pursue the darkness of the past, as the choice would be deliberate and not a result of not knowing any better? Time will tell, it always does….

DE: It was quite a surprise two years ago when CMI organised the 30th anniversary festival. But even more surprising was the Waves of Darkness on the Baltic Sea event that was happening this year. Although they’ve said the anniversary was a one-time only event, it looks like the legend is coming back to life. Do you think this will go further than just a nostalgic look back in time?

TP: The CMI festival in 2017 was as far as we can tell, a once in a lifetime event. It was a genuine 30-year anniversary. (But on the other hand, CMI turns 3, 40, 45, 50….) And what Death Disco created on the Baltic sea in September was something completely different. It was more willingly a unique opportunity to see all your favorite bands on a cruise to Riga. An up close and personal experience at sea. The first festival was indeed a once in lifetime experience, this will not happen again, but who knows what the Baltic Sea has in store for us?

DE: The concert on the boat must have been a very special experience. How did you experienced it?

TP: To say that the experience onboard M/S Necromantica was special is an understatement. Maybe the experience would have been more normalized if the conditions on Sunday would have been more “normal”, but with the storm that suddenly emerged in time for Of the Wand and the Moon, and which climaxed just in time for ORE and TriORE, and then withstood for most of In Slaughter Natives, I would more willingly like to describe the experience as absurd. It was an altogether fantastic experience in many many ways. Artists and fans coexisting together onboard a ship, one really great stage for everyone, one concert at a time, two days of fun at sea, 1000 people stuck together onboard, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. This was amazing, so thank so Vlad, and thank you Death Disco for making it happen.

 

From an ORE concert point of view however, it was definitely not perfect; quite the contrary. But from what I’ve heard I gather the impression that most people really loved it. They were able to see and understand the absurdity of it all while 6 meter waves hit the body of the boat and caused both equipment, artists, audience and the entre stage to move from side to side. My impressions are therefore somewhat schizophrenic, but it was a very unique and altogether successful experience.

DE: When I combine the aesthetics of ORE and a cruise ship, my thoughts bring me automatically to the Roman Polanski movie Bitter Moon. Do you think this match fit?

TP: Sounds tempting.

DE: The ORE videoclips are always very high profile. Beside Bitter Moon, are there other movies that share your point of view?

TP: The Secretary.

DE: In times were censorship reigns supreme, it’s very surprising the Menage à Trois videoclip is still online. Did you get shocking comments after releasing this clip?

TP: I don’t read the comment sections, just as I try to stay clear of reading too many reviews of our albums. It’s ultimately counter productive. And with 1.4M views (which nobody expected, especially not OOL) there must be quite a lot of people who genuinely hate both the song and the video. But as we sent the video to a handful of friends and family before the release, we did get our share of shocking comments before the video went public.

DE: I’ve also asked this question to Coph Nia’s Mikael Alden: how do you look back at the CMI years? Mikael especially remembers the specific familiar feeling. It’s also a fact nowadays we still see CMI acts together sharing one bill, looking back could you say that lifelasting friendship bonds were made in that period?

TP: Of course, in retrospective it was a very special time in our lives that founded many life lasting friendships. Many of us (Mikael, Jouni, Roger and Lina excluded of course) were quite young when it all happened. I was 20 when I started working with CMI for the first Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio contributions, 22 when I recorded Reaping the Fallen. And I was only 18 when we recorded the Archon Satani contributions for Dimensions of a Coffin. So it’s been a while since it all began and even as much as 9 years since it ended. But I still have contact with friends from the CMI days, and as Mikael says, it had a very familiar feeling, like the Manson family.

DE: ORE is one of the few acts in the neofolk genre who made the step to a “big” label, I can only think of Rome who did the same thing (Trisol). Rome made a complete change of style during the years and can’t be hardly called neofolk anymore. ORE instead remains true to their wellknown sound. Not saying that Rome had to change but believing this was a natural proces, was this artistic issue a condition before signing at Out Of Line?

TP: I have had a very open and honest dialogue with Out of Line ever since day one. Maybe it hasn’t been easy all the time with an industrial / apocalyptic folk band becoming part of an electronic mainstream label, and trying to make room for us in an already existing habitat in which we don’t belong, but the dialogue has always been good. OOL has never made any demands on anything. ORE has been allowed to operate freely, do what we desire, sound as we want to, and be ORE in every way without restrictions. The only thing Andre said that we needed to consider; was German law. I’ve been able to say what I want and Andre (Out of Line CEO) has told me what he thinks and so on. I haven’t always been pleased, as for the work that OOL did for Vision:Libertine, but we talked about it and we both decided to do our best with Let’s Play and see where it takes us. And so far so good I’d say. So I see no reason not to keep on working with OOL for a foreseeable future.

DE: A remarkable quality of the albums that were released at Out Of Line is the warmth that goes out of them. It goes also beyond the dark folk genre. ORE shows that this stoic genre, unless what some people think, can be enriched with various elements and even deliver real “hits”. When it comes to recording, what’s the main difference nowadays?

TP: I think this question depends on how far back in time we go when we compare it to nowadays. When I started in 1993 I had a Roland Workstation W30, no real microphones and I did my final recordings in Jouni’s studio on an 8 track. Nowadays I have full home studio, high quality microphones, unlimited recording possibilities and a brand new iMac. So the technical differences are vast. But on a more personal level I think it is also fair to say that today, I know what I’m doing, I create this sort of music because I want to and the results are deliberate. In the beginning it was more an art project where the results were the product of my limitations.

DE: ORE is one of the leading names in the dark folk genre, and is named together with other spearheads as C93 en DI6. When I made my entrance in the so called dark music scene, it was quickly clear that this will be my kind of music. Almost twenty years later it’s sad to see that new acts in the genre are rather exceptional. When I talk to other bands, organisers and label managers they all share the same sad thought: this scene is dying. Happily there are some sparkles to enlighten us every now and then, but this verdict seems inevitable.

The fact that the musical landscape is changing very fast is of course a very important reason, but there will always be some fanatics who keep on supporting the scene. What’s your look at the neofolk scene nowadays?

TP: I never thought I’d live to see the day when Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio was mentioned next to Current 93 and Death in June. I wish I could go back in time and tell 15 year old me that this day would come.

As you say, the scene is dying unless it’s already dead. It’s hard, not to say impossible, to attract people to individual concerts and therefore it necessary to have events such as “Waves of Darkness” or “Porta Nigra” when you invite enough interesting acts to attract a larger number of people who feel they MUST attend. But these are sad times for the scene. I suppose I will know for sure just how sad they actually are in February when we have a German weekend tour together with Triarii. Hopefully not as sad as I think.

DE: Together with Christian Erdmann (Triarii) you formed TriORE 10 years ago. I just saw ORE and Triarii will perform live in Leipzig in the beginning of 2020, are there future plans to also continue with the TriORE collaboration?

TP: We have a second album ready, a truly great album; we are just waiting for the opportunity to release it under the right circumstances.

DE: From the beginning sexuality was a huge angle of approach in your music. All kinds of human fantasies are covered, especially those who are disapproved by the so called “average person”. You also combine this with the typical mark of shame that religion puts on all of this, which in my opinion makes it even more powerful. The question that many people will ask is in which way these fantasies are entwined with your daily life?

TP: The fantasies are always there, but of course it’s a lot easier to have a more active and extrovert lifestyle before you become parents, than it is today. Before parenthood you could decide to go to clubs in the weekend, act out and bring someone with you back home, or simply do whatever you desired whenever you desired. But nowadays everything is more based on tact and seizing the moments. Things are still possible but they are only available in moderation. But on the other hand, it makes it all the more precious and pleasurable when these opportunities do occur.

DE: The song A World Not So Beautiful sadly enough had proved to have profetic visions. Do you think there is a future for Europe as we know it?

TP: I suppose everything depends on which Europe you know.

Constituted borders and countries are illusive and ever changing. What we consider as true today was unimaginable 50 years ago, and will most likely be considered entirely insignificant in 100 years from now. We move in cycles. Kingdoms come and go. So the Europa we know will die like everything else, what we say is “our” culture will become intertwined with new expressions and what we consider progressive today will be conservative and regressive tomorrow. We will naturally feel rootless and disillusioned as our culture crumbles before our eyes, but our children will never understand our grief and our separation.

DE: The first album ORE made for Out Of Line, Songs 4 Hate & Devotion, which also features some of your keytracks is not for sale anymore for a longtime. Did you already get the question considering a reissue of this masterpiece?

TP: People are asking about this album quite regularly, and I did in fact speak to OOL about the possibility to rerelease it in combination with Let’s Play in September. But even though I see the potential of rereleasing it, I also understand the record label perspective on reissues, quantities and the record selling climate 2019/20, and I understand their skepticism of bringing the dead back to life. The album however, will be rereleased in 2020, maybe not by OOL, but there will be physical “Songs 4 Hate & Devotion” album for sale again.

DE: Nicolas van Meirhaeghe (Empusae) who also works with Triarii seems to be a full time member since 2014. Are you familiar with other Belgian artists?

TP: Belgium for me is Electronic & EBM, that’s your legacy. Front 242, The Klinik, Dive, Split Second, Vomito Negro; Play it Again Sam Records.

I’m a long time fan of The Klinik. Dirk still does great things with Dive, but none of them quite as great as he and Marc Verhagen did with Klinik. I still have a special place for that 3 LP Box in my record collection.

DE: In the special edition of Let’s Play you’ll find a toy and a pair of stockings. The nylon fetish is a recurrent theme, so maybe it’s time to tell us which is the best hosery to fullfill your desires?

TP: Rose and I have the same preference when it comes to this topic, so we are both wholehearted admirers of the hold up stocking; it’s genuinely hard to compete with that particular item. But a classical seamed stocking attached to a 10-strap garter-belt is also a real turn on. And lately both of us have come to relish overt pantyhose, fishnet in particular. So there’s a selection to choose from.

DE: ORE will play the Porta Nigra festival again, and as I am playing the afterparty, do you have a request to hear?

TP: No matter how much we’d like to, I’m not really sure how much time we will have to attend that afterparty on March 6^th, considering that we will perform in Mannheim the night after, but here are my requests, take your pick.

Haus Arafna – No Right to Live - 7” version

The Klinik – Black Leather

Skinny Puppy – Tin Omen

Christian Death –Romeo’s Distress

Lee Hazelwood – Summer Wine

DE: Than can be arranged! See you there!

Pictures: 1, 2, 4 & 5: Marquis(pi)X, 3. Benny Serneels

Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio