25 YEARS OF AHRÁYEPH: Everything I do, right or wrong, is being determined by my autism

25 years, that's how long Ahráyeph has been around. Or rather: in 1996, the first demo of Crucifire, the predecessor of Ahráyeph, was released. In 2021 the ‘XXV’-E.P. was released by Ahráyeph, which had to celebrate a quarter of a century of music by Raf Ahráyeph – Raf Jansen for the friends. We thought this was a great opportunity to review the most important dates from this ‘prog-goth’ career with Raf. We had many questions, and Raf has always answered extensively and remarkably candidly. So it turned out to be a long, but very interesting interview.

1996: You record your first demo for Crucifire, a goth metal band which is a precursor for Ahráyeph. Tell me how that came about?

At that time, I used to live in an old convent, which also housed university students. Among others, Steven Zwaenepoel, now road manager for dEUS, lived there. In 1995, Jo, Crucifire’s bassist to be, got a room in Steven’s hallway for the duration of his nursing apprenticeship. We kept in touch afterwards and because he had told me of his band, Sarcastic, I went to a rehearsal of theirs in the Spring of 1996. They mostly played cover songs, like Therapy?’s ‘Teethgrinder’. I had already laid the initial foundations for Crucifire with a first demo, recorded on an analog four track back in 1995, and was now looking for a band. Jo, playing bass, and his buddies David and Peter were competent musicians, so I proposed to segue their band into mine.

I don’t remember why, but Peter wasn’t part of it initially, so we had a different guitar player for a while. When he failed to show, it turned out that Peter was interested after all. David moved from drums to keyboards and electronic percussion, because I had an amazing drummer in my buddy Geert, who - without wanting to diminish his drumming abilities - outclassed David on that instrument. But David had a lot more qualities: he had a much broader theoretical knowledge and was a multi-instrumentalist, so I really wanted to keep him in the band, even if we already had a keyboard player in Raf Corten, who I later took with me to Ancient Rites.

The six of us then started rehearsing and recorded a first, hideously sounding demo in October 1996. We did parts of that in our rehearsal space and in the loft I had moved to, which has been immortalised as ‘The White Square’. We had really decent recording gear, which is surprising for a fledgling band, but we made up for the lack of recording experience with enthusiasm, with all the hideously sounding consequences.

 

1996-1997: You start playing in the black metal band Ancient Rites. Is that the reason why Crucifire got sidetracked?

I have to adjust that timeline a bit: I’ve played in Ancient Rites for about six months that first time, from September 1996 till March 1997, with a one-off stand in gig in May, when Erik couldn’t make it to the concert. My addition to that band wasn’t the reason why Crucifire got sidetracked, though, because the band kept existing, albeit less and less as time went by, until early 1998. A couple of the rehearsal demos we recorded during that time, I later crafted into songs that appeared on the first few Ahráyeph releases (e.g., ‘Cure/Divine/Madness’). No, the reason for Crucifire’s slow demise had more to do with the fact that first Jo and then Geert quit, respectively due to studies and work commitments. Hence, they couldn’t dedicate enough time to the band. For a while, that dampened Peter and David’s enthusiasm, but one by one they returned. Raf apparently liked being in Ancient Rites better and started to be absent from our rehearsals without ever giving a reason. He just disappeared at crucial times. This became something of a recurring thing with him, which ultimately cost him his place in Ancient Rites and its side band, Danse Macabre.

Besides all that, our soft drug use, which Geert had brought into the rehearsals, became a big part of the band’s undoing. Rehearsals started to turn into excuses to smoke pot until deep into the night. I wasn’t happy with that, but I didn’t possess the authority to nip it in the bud either, not least because I was a guilty party.

 

2001: Crucifire dies a quiet death, but around the turn of the century you reboot the project. You change the name to Ahráyeph and steer the ship towards gothic rock, without the metal influences. What was your motivation to start over?

Well, it may sound funny, but that first demo played a big part in that. I met the drummer of a band that often had opened for Ancient Rites. He was a fan of the songs on the demo and sang their praises in the presence of friends of mine, who only knew my alt rock project Sole, so they became curious about what I had done prior to that. However, I was too embarrassed about its bad quality to let them listen to it. Eventually, though, it did happen and one of them, one of the biggest fans of The Sisters Of Mercy I’ve known, was of the opinion that Crucifire was where my heart was at more than those alternative songs. That made me think, and after a couple days of brainstorming, I decided he was right and rebooted Crucifire. Still a while later, I changed the name, because I indeed wanted to expel the metal influences present in Crucifire. Not that I suddenly resented metal; I was just looking to conceive a more organic, open sound, with more atmosphere. Besides that, an Australian thrash band who used the same name had come into existence in the interim (they are no longer active). And lastly, I was the only remaining original band member, so it was an easy decision.

 

2004-2007: You once again become a member of Ancient Rites. You’ve contributed significantly to this band in this period, especially as a song writer on the ‘Rubicon’ album. In 2007 you leave Ancient Rites to concentrate on Ahráyeph. What do you remember about your time in the band?

Oh boy… You got a couple of hours? A lot happened back then, both good and bad. To keep it positive: we’ve played several great gigs. There was the Revoltallo XIII festival in Vigo, Spain, where we played on a mountain which looked out over the bay where the city lay. A beautiful spot, which had a restaurant nearby which was situated under a large rock. Fascinating. The audience was truly amazing that night. I had contracted a twenty-four-hour flu from the air conditioning on the plane and played with a fever, but the audience was so riled up they really pulled me through with their unbridled enthusiasm.

I also met Marec in the band, who had recently become their sound engineer. He would also come to fill that position in Ahráyeph. A wonderful human being who knew his craft inside and out, to both bands’ advantage. Unfortunately, he got diagnosed with Meunière’s Disease shortly before the pandemic hit, which is causing him to lose his hearing. A serious loss, both for Marec and the bands he worked with. But the comradeship remains, even if we don’t talk very often. He even came and helped me out with the renovations here for a few weeks right before the pandemic hit, just out of kindness. He’s contributed so much to Ahráyeph, more than many an ex-band member, so I would be remiss if I didn’t mention him.

Our gig at the Graspop Metal Meeting in 2006 was of course also a personal high note. I’m a full blood Kempian (Kempen being the Belgian geographic region where the festival is held annually), so being able to play in your own region at the biggest metal festival in Belgium and one of the biggest in Europe, couldn’t be anything else than a high note. Musically, it may not have been our strongest concert, no doubt due to raging nerves, but the Marquee was packed to the rafters, all the way to the outside, I was told later, and we got an amazing reception. There were also friends and acquaintances in the audience, which made it extra special. Other than that, our backstage trailer was across from Alice In Chains’, who are musical heroes of mine. I was able to exchange a few words with Jerry and Sean, very nice guys. But the most rock ’n roll moments of my life happened when I went to the toilet before our gig and ended up standing at the urinals between their singer William DuVall and the New York Dolls’s David Johanssen. Then you know you’ve arrived, hahaha!

Another high point was of course the album ‘Rubicon’ itself. I’m still immensely proud of that album. It’s true that the music for most of the songs was written by me, but Erik’s songs and ‘Brabantia’, which I co-wrote with Domingo are just as strong. There are no weak songs on that album. And it also contains some of Gunther’s strongest lyrics. I recall that Erik and I went out for a drink one night during the recording process, because we needed a break and during the ride into Krefeld, we agreed that we had a strong album on our hands. This was evidenced later when the invariably positive reviews started coming in. That’s also the reason why I stayed in the band longer than I intended, as after the record was finished, things were said and done to which I took great exception, but I just couldn’t detach myself from those songs. Let’s call it vanity…

 

2008: it’s finally here: ‘Marooned on Samsara’, Ahráyeph’s debut. I’ve come to understand it was a difficult undertaking, because even though you had a band, you’ve recorded a lot of it by yourself. How happy were you with this album?

I was happy that the album was released and got the opportunity to do so via D-Monic. Contrary to what you often hear, I’ve never had any complaints about the label that released ‘Samsara’. They’ve always treated me fairly and stuck to the contract and the agreements we made. It’s just unfortunate they weren’t able to provide tour support because they weren’t big enough to do that. I’m sure they would have if they could have. That could’ve made a difference.

2008: I’ve only seen you live once, at a gig promoted by Bunkerleute at the Lido (Leuven, BE). You still had a band back then, now you’re doing everything on your own. Is there still a chance you’ll be playing live again with Ahráyeph?

That chance is definitely still there, but unfortunately, with the times being the way they are, it’s not the right time to start organising that. I’d have to find new musicians to accompany me, organise rehearsals, find a booking agency… As long as the pandemic rolls on and the uncertain times for artists continue, I don’t think it’s the right time to put all of that in motion, even if the desire to play live definitely exists. I’ve not played live for much too long and it’s something I always loved. After my first European tour with Ancient Rites, I knew I was born to be on the road, as exhaustive as it can be. I came back from that tour completely drained, but after just one night’s sleep in my own bed, I was ready and willing to jump back on the tour bus and do another ten days straight. That says it all. I come alive when I’m onstage, even if I don’t talk much or at all between songs. That’s not arrogance: my songs are my way of communicating with the audience, what more do you need to add to that? But I’d really love to do that again. If there are any interested musicians out there: you can always contact me through the band’s official Facebook page.

2013: You get the diagnosis of having Autism Spectrum Disorder. On the one hand, you’re extremely intelligent, on the other you have issues with things that are mere afterthoughts to the average person. Do you think this disorder had an impact on your work with Ahráyeph?

Without a shadow of a doubt. Everything I do, right or wrong, is being determined by my disorder. It’s only when I got that diagnosis, that I started to realise how deep the impact of it has been on everything I’m doing and everything I’ve experienced.

Allow me to say that I think it important to be open about my A.S.D. Some people, even fellow musicians, have tried to pressure me and told me I shouldn’t, but especially in times like these and after everything I’ve been through, it’s important to me to be able to be who I am. And I’ve also always supported other people in their quest to be who they are. I was bullied in high school, my family looked down on me… I ended up with bouts of prolonged severe depression and an extremely negative self-image because of that; I constantly hit the walls of my own boundaries, I was (and still am) considered a weirdo because I react in a raw and unfiltered way to everything, something I still often do because unfortunately, it’s beyond my control. I’ve been hurt, but I also have hurt, sometimes without realising just how much. There are certain relationships where, in hindsight, I have to admit I can’t hold it against those women that they ended them, because due to the combination of my autistic nature with those depressions and their ensuing self-esteem issues, I treated them less than they were worth. At the same time, I’ve also been easy prey for women who didn’t have my best interests at heart, due to my A.S.D. That’s how a song like, say, ‘Lilith’ came into being. Since my diagnosis and the therapy going along with it, I’ve become (more) aware of my own shortcomings, but just as well of my own boundaries, and that helps. Ahráyeph, in that sense, has always been an outlet for all these autistic experiences and observations. Ahráyeph is my self therapy. I certainly am not the only one in the music scene in that respect. And speaking of that self-esteem : it’s a lot better now. I don’t hate myself anymore, but the emotional damage I’ve accumulated over four decades has left an indelible imprint on me. It can’t be helped, but fortunately, I have Ahráyeph to help me deal with that.

Practically speaking, my A.S.D. has also interfered with Ahráyeph and cost me many an opportunity, because I am, after all, who I am and the disorder is an integral part of my personality, even if I am, obviously, more than just my disorder. I am simply unable to turn it off. It’s always there and that’s often tiring, even for me. And when it comes to interpersonal dynamics, it’s never easy to deal with other people. I’m extremely detailed and hence very verbose (for example: it’s not easy for me to keep my answers to your questions concise, because I want to paint as detailed a picture as possible, which is, of course, impossible), am always striving for perfection and hence am not making it easy on myself as well as others. And at the same time, I have zero tolerance for laziness, manipulative behaviour, and selfishness. When it comes to band dynamics, those were too often the causes for rifts, not just in Ahráyeph, for that matter.

 

2015: It takes seven years before there’s a follow up to ‘Marooned on Samsara’, a delay caused in part by a serious burn out. Nevertheless, ‘AnimAElegy’ is a real gem. This time you record everything yourself, except for guest musicians on drums and keyboards. Are you still proud of this album?

Definitely. I have to correct you, though: Ness was not a guest musician, but a band member in Ahráyeph’s last live line up. It’s too bad she, too, had to give priority to her job, because she was without a doubt the Ahráyeph band member who meant the most to me, both on a personal and a musical level. I still miss working with her.

Getting back to ‘AnimAElegy’ then, I feel that it’s a step up from ‘Samsara’, even if my observation is that the debut struck a chord with a few people, more than this album or the releases that followed. Even so, when it comes to song writing, production and also lyric writing, I’m more than happy with ‘AnimAElegy’. Aside of ‘Desert Songs’ - which apparently is too long - all of my albums, E.P.s and songs are now on all streaming services, which makes me hope ‘AnimAElegy’ can burrow its way into the dark hearts of listeners a bit more that way, because I really think it deserves it.

 

2016: You release the 'Desert Songs'-E.P., building on the work of Robin Proper-Sheppard - a man who you happen to know personally - and his band The God Machine. Can you elaborate on the inspiration behind the ep?

 I wouldn’t say I was building on Robin and his previous band’s work necessarily with this E.P. The God Machine are, as you know, a big influence of mine, but I’ve only borrowed that title, because when I was writing the songs, they evoked a desert like atmosphere in me. My mother, who is by no means a fan, observed a couple of times that I ‘write cinematic music’ and when it comes to ‘Desert Songs’ in particular, I do agree with that assessment. While I was composing, I kept envisioning scenes of big sand dunes, red evening skies with a sun setting on a horizon trembling from the heat, caravans ploughing through the sands, trying to reach an oasis and nightly desert skies lit up by stars and planets.

On the other hand, I was living through that burn out you just mentioned at the time. How I felt back then was described perfectly in the title track of prog metal band Queensrÿche’s fifth album, ‘Promised Land’: ‘Life’s been like dragging feet through sand and never finding a Promised Land’. Queensrÿche may at first glance not be a band you’d listen to as a goth (even if ‘The Mission’ and ‘Suite Sister Mary’ on ‘Operation:Mindcrime’ are early examples of what later would become ‘gothic metal’), but this album has a very dark and sullen vibe. It’s more Pink Floyd than heavy metal, but that makes the album all the better to me, and the title track is really very dark and depressing. Everything being described in it could have come from my own life back then, so that came to mind when I was working on ‘Desert Songs’. Thanks to the image of someone ploughing through sand and not getting anywhere, I got the idea to use that title and write lyrics in the same vein, which was surprisingly easy. I feel they are among my best lyrics, if not my best. The book ‘What Dreams May Come’ was also a source of inspiration. I remain convinced it also was the main inspiration behind Carl McCoy’s lyrics on the Fields of the Nephilim album ‘Elizium’. I had just reread the book and was riffing on the concept of the ‘Summerland’, the dimension in between death and the next reincarnation, so that’s part of it as well.

 

2016: With ‘Desert Songs’ you also announce a temporary hiatus to Ahráyeph. You want to concentrate on your metal project, Trans World Tribe, with singer Staci Heaton. The band releases an E.P. and a single in 2016, but fades into obscurity thereafter. What happened?

In short: just like Ness, Staci decided to give priority to her career. She works for the Californian government, where she is part of the environmental and agrarian department. She’s also married (her husband Brian recently co-authored the very first biography on the aforementioned Queensrÿche) and is raising a daughter. That all these things take precedence over a music project is something I completely understand. On the other hand, she’s a very talented singer and it’s a pity I can also no longer work with her. But Trans World Tribe isn’t dead, just hibernating. I don’t yet know when or how, but there will be a follow up. I still have plenty of demos and song ideas lying around to work with, so there’s no shortage of material for the future.

 

2018: You release the ‘Heavy like the ancient sun’ album, an homage to your deceased friend James Blaast!™. What was your motivation behind that?

James was, without exaggeration, my best friend. Our friendship was completely mutual, something I can’t say of many other people. It’s hard to explain why our friendship was so special… It just clicked from the first moment we met. It was as if we’d known each other our entire lives. That in itself wasn’t obvious, because as everyone who knew him can attest to, James wasn’t always the easiest person to get along with. He was very outspoken and didn’t mince words to the point where if his words had actually been meat, he could provide the whole of Scotland with prime, unminced beef for years. He also had no issues writing off people when he was done with them for whichever reason. Even I butted heads with him a few times because he crossed the line. But contrary to where he’d stick to his guns with other people, he’d always make the effort to make amends and respect my boundaries. He even told me so in no uncertain terms the last time this happened, and he kept that promise until the day he died. That’s the way he was. On the other hand, James was the most loyal friend a person could’ve had. He never thought twice about giving me a Facetime call and if I took too long to do so myself, I’d get a good natured ‘ERSE!’ in my mailbox, signalling it was high time for me to return the favour. Those calls turned into one- or two-hour conversations, sometimes twice that.

He also was very patient with me. If, for example, I had a bad day and kept that from him, he wouldn’t say anything about it, but, almost always successfully, tried to make me laugh, after which he subtly - yes, he could be subtle - let me know he knew something was wrong with me. The man knew how to handle raising my spirits without being intrusive. That’s real friendship. I thought I knew a lot when it came to music, but James, generous as he was in sharing his musical knowledge, taught me a lot more still. His knowledge of music was vast and his love for music even greater. It was all encompassing, especially where it concerned prog rock, goth and metal. The fact that I know Chameleons’ ‘Script Of The Bridge’ is entirely his merit, because this band wasn’t on my radar back in the 80’s.

He also was a graphic designer, something I later became too, in part due to the things I learned from him. I owe my diploma in part to him. He also managed to pass on his love for his hometown, Glasgow, to me. I love that city; I love its mentality and the people who live there and its good and bad aspects. James and I always addressed each other in ‘Weegie’, the Glaswegian accent, which I’ve since made my own, even if my command of it may have waned since I’m unable to talk to James anymore, like we did up until two days before he died. James was my brother from another mother and he and his mum Molly, who died about eighteen months after him, were fantastic people to have known. James also was Ahráyeph’s No.1 fan. It was he who bestowed the ‘prog goth’ label on Ahráyeph. He even came to Belgium to attend Ahráyeph’s very first live gig. His support was unconditional, even if he could be critical when he felt it was needed, which was also something I always appreciated. So why would I not honour his memory in a way he would have found fitting, with music?

 

2018: You release a reworked version of ‘Marooned on Samsara’ digitally. All songs were re-recorded. Were you that dissatisfied with the original recordings?

I was, actually. In the interim, my knowledge of music production had improved exponentially, and I also had better tools to implement them. I’m speaking in particular of the speakers I was using, the right studio speakers, which are different from hi fi speakers, make a huge difference. It’s something I learned empirically. All of a sudden, I didn’t have to work as hard to get a good mix, because I had a clearer sonic picture to work from. Additionally, the CD version of the album was sold out and no longer available. This made me feel it was the right time to re-record it and right a few wrongs. On top of that, I had a run in on Youtube with an American publishing company who, as part of my deal with D-Monic, had gotten their hands on the rights to my songs for the duration of the contract. I was warned I had no right to publish my own songs on the platform. Even though the rights reverted back to me after three years and I once again retained full ownership to the songs, I felt it prudent to re-record the album and re-register the songs, so I would keep the author- and publishing rights, so things like that would never happen to me again. People seldom realise it, but there’s a lot of administration involved when it comes to making music professionally, and if you’re not careful, there can be big consequences.

 

2020: You announce the ‘Heaven No. 7’-E.P. as an inbetween release to make up for the long wait for the next album. I do like it, and was especially impressed by the profound lyrics. Can you tell me how you handle writing lyrics for Ahráyeph?

Ooff, that’s a question that often gets asked, just like ‘how do you write your songs?’, and for which there is no simple answer, really. As I’ve already mentioned, my lyrics deal with my own experiences and observations. I would, however, like to write something from a different perspective down the line, even something fictional and I already have come up with a few ideas, which may even be used for Trans World Tribe, but in Ahráyeph, I mainly am addressing my own life and emotions, not least because, as I mentioned before, Ahráyeph is my outlet and therapy.

Something I do try to avoid, is to become political in my songs. I did make an exception to that rule during the repulsive Trump era and the events of January 6th. That’s how the song ‘Superspreaders’ ended up on ‘Heaven No.7’. The man is Roman emperor Nero incarnate and you can take that literally. Anyone going through the effort of checking out the Wikipedia page on that emperor can’t get around the often shocking similarities. Only, Nero didn’t have social media to spout his poison. But other than that, you shouldn’t expect any politically inspired songs from me, except if there would be a neo nazi and fascist takeover in this country and in Europe. That must be resisted by any means, even musical ones.

What’s always been really important to me where Ahráyeph’s lyrics are concerned, is that they work. I have a very allegorical and metaphorical style of writing, often laced with references to other songs, authors and metaphysics. That’s not just due to my literary and musical influences, but also to me not being good at writing ‘direct’ lyrics, in which I express myself in a more explicit manner, like, for instance, Robin Proper-Sheppard. If I write like that, it ends up in clichés and schmaltz and it ends up sounding fake. Whereas when he does it, I instantly believe what he’s singing. I once told him I consider him an impressionistic writer, both in the God Machine and in Sophia. It’s a craft and he possesses that craft, I don’t. Furthermore, I just don’t want to be a copy of anyone else. I’ve searched long and hard to find my own literary ‘voice’, another reason why that Crucifire demo makes me break out in hives of shame, because those lyrics were, for the most part, really bad, with a few nuggets here and there. The irony of it all is that, right after I finished that demo, I did start finding that unique literary voice to express myself through. It still wasn’t easy, but at least I found the right angle to express myself in my very own way.

 

2021: The ‘XXV’-E.P. is supposed to celebrate 25 years of Ahráyeph. It contains three songs, a Depeche Mode cover among them. How important was it for you to celebrate this symbolic anniversary?

A little, haha. Twenty-five years is a milestone, and it doesn’t suck to emphasise that, does it? It doesn’t really feel like twenty-five years to me and to be honest, it’s not as if I’ve had it on my mind for this entire year. It’s just that by the end of last Summer, I looked back on my career and realised it’s been twenty-five years since Jo, Peter, David, Raf, Geert and I got together in that rehearsal shack to become a band and work on songs together. That made it easy for me to couple the release of the ‘XXV’ E.P. with it. Also gave me an easy title, haha.

One constant, from the Crucifire demo to that E.P., is that I’ve always recorded cover songs. At that time, it was an English version of the song ‘Laatste Woorden’ (‘Last Words’) by Belgian band De Lama’s, retitled ‘The Hand That Feeds’, for which I wrote completely new lyrics and which I reworked as if it were a Type O Negative song, until now with Depeche Mode’s ‘Never Let Me Down Again’; because I always wanted to cover one of their songs (‘Stripped’ got discarded because I just couldn’t hear myself sing ‘Let me hear you make decisions without your television’ seriously). And since that song had a personal connotation for me, it was an obvious choice, even if I did manage to put in a few musical references to ‘Stripped’ en ‘Clean’ at the end. Funny thing : it was my cover of The Cure’s ‘A Forest’, conceived during the latter Crucifire days, which lay the foundation for what later became the ‘Ahrayeph sound’. The way I arranged it was kind of a light bulb moment which I would use to my advantage from then on, even if it has evolved over the years, because I don’t want to repeat myself.

 

2021: You release the single ‘Bloodletting’ with the promise to release a song from the next record each month. That didn’t prove feasible, but we’d love to hear about the new album you’ve been announcing for a while…

To be clear: those monthly releases were intended for the monthly ‘Bandcamp Friday’ initiative, which ran until May. But I did indeed struggle with the lyrics and was forced to postpone ‘XXV’s release, which turned out to be for the better in the long run.

As for the fourth album… It’s a bit of a tough one, because I wanted to approach it from a different angle than I usually do. I’ve got a certain concept in mind which I don’t want to disclose much about right now, but it requires me to write all of the lyrics before getting to the music. It’s not the way I work usually, even if there are plenty of Ahráyeph songs which had lyrics before I wrote the music. However, doing that for an entire album doesn’t seem to be all that straightforward, at least not to me. I’ve been struggling with it for a few years now and that’s also the reason why I’m releasing all those E.P.’s: if I’m sitting on songs that don’t fit the concept but are too good to save up for an album, I’d rather release them. Also, and I hate saying this because I love albums; but the album format is gradually losing its importance. Music these days is being - I’m this close to gagging - ‘consumed’ in a more fragmentary manner. Of course, true music lovers, who luckily still exist, will take exception to this statement because they don’t listen this way, but unfortunately, they’re the minority. That’s just the reality of it. I can’t release CD’s or vinyl albums for that minority because it would amount to a huge financial loss, not least due to the lamentable ‘renumeration’ streaming services ‘pay’ artists. It’s less than peanuts. Only Bandcamp, the platform I’m using to release my music, is treating artist fairly. Hence, it’s becomes important for artists to regularly release music and stay relevant and in the public eye, especially during a pandemic like this.

In the meantime, I’m continuing work on the album - I’m currently on hiatus due to my annual ‘hibernation period’ - but I can’t and won’t make any predictions about when it will be released at this moment. Just a few weeks ago, I think I’ve finally found the right way to open the story with and that’s been the thing I’ve been struggling with the most, because I already have several other parts written for other songs. But due to the nature of this concept, it’s essential that I start with Song One and finish with the last song, in order to keep things transparent and orderly for me. But it’s anything but simple, for me anyway, so I’d rather not say anything about it until it’s (nearly) done. But it will eventually be finished and released, that’s for certain, even if there will still be another E.P. coming soon.

Ahráyeph: bandcamp / facebook

The Dutch version of this interview first appeared on www.darkentries.be.

Whispers In The Shadow: I’m not a conservative songwriter and I’m not interested in the status quo. I’m interested in progress.

Whispers In The Shadow exists for 25 years, and that should be celebrated. A new compilation is out: ‘Gilding The Lily’, which consists partly of new recordings of the best songs from the past quarter century. The band has undergone a serious evolution during that period, and you can read all about it in the conversation we had with front man Ashley Dayour. Together, we discussed the entire career of this psychedelic wave rock group, the highs and lows and the permanent search for innovation. 

Hi Ashley. We’re celebrating 25 years of Whispers In The Shadow this year. So, happy birthday. I suppose you were born out of the goth scene in Vienna. How was this scene at the time? What attracted you to it? 

Thanks a lot. Originally, I’m not from Vienna. I grew up at the countryside far from the big city so to speak - if you can call Vienna a big city. So, I wasn’t really part of any scene really. Of course, the music was influenced by the sound of guitar driven wave and goth bands but the little gothic scene we had and have in Vienna got nothing to do with it. I also must add I’m not a big club fanatic, never was. I don’t go out much and I don’t know a lot of people. So, I can’t really say much about the scene back then, and the same goes for the goth scene now. It’s small, but always has been active. And there’s a few people who really keep it alive and just don’t stop doing so, which is admirable. 

The first cassettes were released in 1996. It seems that you were Whispers In The Shadow, playing all the instrument. What should we remember from this period? Can you recall how you started Whispers In The Shadow? 

I was also playing in a band called Sanguis Et Cinis at the time but got a little frustrated how things were moving with them. I just wanted to play the music I was actually listening to. There was no place for that sound with Sanguis Et Cinis, so I decided to record something more or less on my own. The first demos were 4-track-recordings we recorded in my bedroom at my parent’s place when I was still living there. I was very young, it was more than one lifetime ago, actually. 

I wasn’t really satisfied with the first demo, but the second one was more to my liking. It was the one who got me a record deal. So within just a couple of months we had a deal and a few months later we were in a professional recording studio. We were lucky. Funnily enough only three Songs from that demo made it onto the final album. ‘Face’, ‘Rain’ and ‘Crying Eyes’, the rest were all new songs we wrote afterwards, and they sounded very different from the original Demo tape. 

I still remember the confused faces of the label executives when they came into the studio to listen to what we’ve recorded thus far. They said something like, ‘Hmm that wasn’t on the demo, wasn’t it?’. They repeated that sentence after every song, and of course I was aware of the slightly more concerned faces after each track. Within a couple of months, we changed a lot. But the record did well enough. 

On the first two albums of Whispers In The Shadow – ‘Laudanum’ from 1997 and ‘November’ from 1999 – the band grew to become a trio with Richard Lederer, known from Die Verbannten Kinder Evas, Weltenbrand and Sanguis Et Cinis; and Zebo Adam, who has rejoined the band last year and is a well-known producer in Vienna. How did they join the band then and how was is to work with those people? 

It was clear to me that I wanted to play live. Obviously, I couldn’t play all the instruments at once, and what’s the fun in touring alone? I knew Richard from Sanguis Et Cinis, so I just asked him if he wanted to be in the band. And Zebo was and still is a very close friend of mine, he’s been with the band ever since, not always as a member, but as a very close adviser and/or producer. I remember these first shows very well. Was good fun, some of them anyway, others not so much. 

The first albums were very influenced by ‘Pornography’-style The Cure. If I’m not mistake, you also had this ‘big hair’-cut that is often associated with Robert Smith. Did it bother you to be compared with The Cure? 

At the beginning it did not. Because that was what I wanted to do. Take on where The Cure left in 1982 and write songs which had that sort of space and darkness. Thing was, you have to know The Cure was pretty much out of fashion in the mid 90’s. They didn’t have the ‘God like’ status they have now. I mean, nowadays their influence can be heard in pretty much every guitar sound from every post punk band around the planet. So back then we created a sound which was totally against what people thought was cool. The same goes for the look. 

But I didn’t care much to be honest. Later on, with our third (‘A Taste Of Decay’) and especially our fourth album (‘Permanent Illusions’), when we expanded our sound and experimented more, it started to bother me a bit when the press still reduced us to that Cure-ish sound. Today I really don’t care at all. I love The Cure, they are part of my musical DNA, as is David Bowie by the way. I just don’t give a damn anymore. 

Just recently one guy called me a Peter Murphy clone. He was the first! And surprisingly so. But you see people always need to compare you to other things. I couldn’t care less. 

‘A Taste Of Decay’ saw the band expanding, and offered a more direct rock sound. How did this switch happen? 

After two albums which explored the dark wave sound in full, I just wanted to do something different. I always have been interested in changes and other perspectives. I’m not a conservative songwriter and I’m not interested in the status quo. I’m interested in progress. We wanted to be a rock band so we got us a real drummer and became a ‘real’ band. The line-up changed completely. That album has a few fantastic songs on it, like ‘Nothing Stays Forever’ which is sort of a quintessential Whisper In The Shadow song. The production wasn’t very good though. It was our first recording with a real drummer. It’s a very naïve record, and somehow that might even be sort of its strength. The new versions we did for ‘Gilding The Lily’ from two of these tracks - ‘Nothing Stays Forever’ and ‘A Taste Of Decay’ - show the actual potential. I also have to point out we really became a band at this stage with Fork on Bass and Martin ‘Acid’ Gutmann on keys, who is still in the band and who produced our last couple of records with me. 

The next album, ‘Permanent Illusions’ from 2001, is a further step forward. It offered a more psychedelic sound which earned you the title of ‘goth floyd’, and a first taste of mythological references, in this case to the legend of Pandora. You worked with the Austrian writer Thomas Havlik for the concept, didn’t you? How did this collaboration work? 

Yeah, that was the start of a difficult time and we bit too much of what we could chew. ‘Permanent Illusions’ was a very ambitious thing and only parts of it succeeded, to be honest. Thomas did write a story around some ideas I had. But the story wasn’t ready when the album came out. I think the problem was we were a bit too spaced out at the time. Nevertheless it has some great songs on it. ‘Pandoras Calling’ became a stable live favorite for quite some time. And yes you are right, our ongoing fascination with mythological themes started there. 

A long silence followed between ‘Permanent Illusion’ in 2001 and the live album ‘A Cold Night’ in 2007. You said in an earlier interview that this period almost saw the band disappear. What were the difficulties and how did you overcome them? 

‘Permanent Illusions’ didn’t do well, neither with fans nor with the press. I was frustrated. Also, the band fell apart. There were private matters which were complicating things. The typical near 30 years of age crises. We also tried different directions. But nothing really worked. We recorded a whole album and tried to get our feet on the ground again. Parts of that album were released on the compilation release ‘Borrowed Nightmares And Forgotten Dreams’. Other parts remain unreleased to this very day. How did we overcome this phase? We finally found a direction which felt right. I began to have a clearer vision of what I wanted to do. And we also got us a new record deal. Within a year or so everything fell into place again. 

The next big step must have been 2008, when you started a series of records around occult themes, a four-part cycle: ‘Into the Arms of Chaos’ in 2008, ‘The Eternal Arcane’ in 2010, ‘The Rites Of Passage’ in 2012 and ‘Beyond the Cycles of Time’ in 2014. Each album treats another alchemic state. In total, you have worked more than seven years on occult themes. The references to Austin Osman Spare and other occult writers are legion on these records. What did inspire you in their work? 

I always was fascinated with Magick and Occult themes, and I wanted to get that into the music. However, it all began with the movie The Fountain from director Darren Aronofsky. That movie changed a lot of things. Overnight, I dived deeper into the subjects of that movie. So, the changes for me were obvious. I learned about the usual subjects, Spare, Crowley, etc. and that influenced my lyrics and music. And it worked. We were back. A resurrection! We also became a five-piece around that time. With Lazy Schulz on guitar our sound became much richer, especially live. 

When I had the idea of writing 4 albums with these themes, I knew that this would be a lot of work to stay focused and explore that path to the end. After that fourth ‘occult’ album It took a couple of years to actually write songs again. Because clearly all was said and done with the that old direction. 

‘The Urgency Of Now’ in 2018 saw you taking another turn: more direct rock and more political themes. Did the reaction of the public fulfil your expectations? 

Just a few days ago, there was a review of ‘Gilding The Lily’ and the critique pointed out that ‘The Urgency Of Now’ is her favorite album. That happens a lot. When it first came out, I didn’t realize people liked it that much, or maybe it was a slow grower. We were one of the first bands of our genre who went more political. It was about time. And it certainly wasn’t expected from us. It’s a good album. Especially lyric wise. It was written pretty fast. It’s an album driven by hate but equally so by hope. I think that’s why it resonates a bit more with people. Because its themes are more universal. 

On ‘Yesterday Is Forever’, the record from 2020, the music is more diverse than ever before, in my opinion. Even though you claim not to have started from an overarching theme this time, as you did on the last six albums, I can still see a subject connecting the songs: the relation between past, present and future. Do you agree? 

Yes, you might be right. But that wasn’t planned. It was just something that happened. And I also agree that it’s our most diverse and kaleidoscopic album. I wanted to show the world and mostly myself that this band is still able to surprise and that we are not done yet. By all means I wanted to do the opposite of a nostalgic “back to the roots” record. Which is something most bands do around that point of their career. That doesn’t mean we will never ever record such a record though. I’m still very happy with that one. I consider it one of our best. By far actually. 

The new record – 'Gilding The Lily. A Retrospective' – is a compilation that was made to celebrate 25 years of Whispers In The Shadow. How difficult was it to select the right songs for the album? What criterions did you use? 

It was very difficult indeed. If you have over a hundred songs to choose from, that’s not an easy task. My idea was to have at least one and maximum three tracks from each album. Of course, there are songs we had to include: the hits, so to speak. But I also wanted to take the opportunity to dig out some deep cuts, songs that were slightly forgotten or didn’t get the attention they deserved when they first came out. 'Pillowcase' and 'Halous At Dawn' are such songs. Also, the album is designed as a live set. My idea was to get away from the usual chronological playlists of such records and make it something else. Like a real album, actually. 

You also chose to make new records of the tracks on ‘Gilding The Lily’. Sometimes you just changed the vocals, sometimes you rerecorded the whole track. Why was that? 

I wanted it to be coherent in terms of production and sound, so it was obvious we had to re-record the older songs. Also, I’m a way better singer now than I was when we started. So this was a good opportunity to set things straight. And I wanted to make it special, even with the older material. I wanted to do something new. A lot of songs are updated versions which represent the band in the here and now. Take a song like ‘Back To The Wound’ for example. My vocals now have a different attitude than on the original 10 years ago. That goes for most songs, actually. We also did a new video for ‘Back To The Wound’. It was interesting to create something visual for an almost 10-year-old song, but somehow present it like it would have been on the last album. 

Finally, when you look back upon these last 25 years… There have been a lot of changes in musical style, in content, also several line-up changes… But Whispers In The Shadow was always there. You always survived. What has made the longevity of the band, and what is the one thing that the output of the band has in common, that defines Whispers In The Shadow? 

As long as I exist this band will most likely survive. It really is that simple. Of course, I have played with thoughts to call it a day from time to time, but then I think again and realize it’s stupid. I mean, if I would break up the band, we would be back in a couple of years anyway and honestly, I really don’t want to become one of these bands you know. We are way too honest for that. 

Musically I think my voice is what defines the band. That’s what makes it Whispers In The Shadow. With all its pro and cons that is. I’m aware that I’m not a spot-on singer. But it is my voice, it got better and it is the one constant. And spiritual wise I would say our consistency is to do what we think is best. We were not always right, by far not. But that was never the point. Create music I’d like to hear and maybe surprise me and our audience from time to time. 

In the end it comes down to that. That’s why we are still here. That and that feeling when you just played a really good concert. Which is about time again. There are some very interesting shows planed for 2022. Fingers crossed they will finally happen.

Whispers In The Shadow: website / bandcamp / facebook

La Scaltra: Our lyrics are written by life. They tell about pain, grief, farewell, but also about hope.

Fans of gothic rock, your attention please! If you haven’t heard of La Scaltra yet, then you have to listen to them urgently. The band has already released two fine albums and will play at the 25th Dark Entries Night at the Kinky Star in Ghent.

La Scaltra started out as a duo of Aeleth Kaven and Dae Widow. How did you meet and how did you decide to make music together?

Dae and I met 2014 at a concert. Dae was doing merchandise for aeon sable and we learned to know each other there. We soon found out that we are very similar and that we share a love for music, so we spoke about how it would be to do a project together. That´s when the idea was born.

Solar Lodge, one of the leading labels in the gothic rock genre, releases your CDs. How did you get signed with Solar Lodge?

Since Dae knows Artaud and Jawa Seth from The Merciful Nuns well, they paid close attention to La Scaltra and we got the chance with our ‘Ghosts EP’ to join Solar Lodge in 2016 after we published ‘Cabaret’, our first CD without any label. Therefore we are still very thankful for this opportunity given to us and happy to be part of Solar Lodge.

The music you make can be characterized as gothic rock, but the focus is more on synths than on guitars. Isn’t gothic rock meant to be dominated by guitars?

I guess that's because we have those elements of gothic rock in our music, but it is not essential. ‘Cabaret’ and also ‘Freakshow’ were dark medleys of what came to my mind. It was very experimental, with different dark styles and sometimes not really definable. All in all it is witchy and gloomy, and that´s what will always be in our songs, whether there is more gothic rock with guitars in them or more synths and wave or mostly all combined and mixed.

You started out and you build your image as two girls making music. I remember an interview I did with Bettina Köster is which she said it was very important for her to work with women, as they have another feeling for rhythm. How important is it that the music is played by women?

Hmm, I cannot say it is different. If you have a real musician in your band, it does not matter whether it's a woman or a man. You can have boisterous girls as well as you have feminine boys in your group... in my opinion, it is the spirit of music that matters and how it all works together in the end, not the gender.

Where do you find inspiration for your lyrics?

First and foremost: Life and its experiences. What could be more instructive und informative as our lives? And what is more destructive than life? Everything we went through, whether good our bad, forms our further person, our further paths. It becomes part of us and often it is not easy to accept. This struggling with life is one part of creating my songs, on the other hand of course being a hardcore fan of Horrorfilms and -games, so I guess there will be a creepy story or a link with a genre game on every album of La Scaltra.

In 2016, you released ‘Cabaret’ as a digital album, but also the ‘Ghosts’-ep consisting of 4 songs from ‘Cabaret’ on Solar Lodge. Why two different releases?

Yeah, that's right. We were a little bit too early with 'Cabaret', haha. The Solar Lodge deal was a few months later, so they did a lift from the album and created the 'Ghost EP' with a special booklet and 4 songs.

2017 saw the release of your second full album ‘Freak Show’. It got very good reactions. Are you happy with the record and the reactions?

Of course we are! Every inch of happiness about something you created with your time and heart makes you proud, or should make you proud. But I would never take it for granted! It is sometimes still like ‘What? Do they really mean us?’ When it comes to compliments... sometimes all of this is far, far away and sometimes it is right next to you and looks you in the eyes and goes like ‘bam, in your face!’

‘Freakshow’ saw the participation of Jay Sharpe as producer and guitarist. I believe he is now a full member of the band. What is his role in the band?

Jay Sharpe is a full member of La Scaltra and is also the guitarist and Din-Tah Aeon of aeon sable. He is my beloved life mate and boyfriend and a high valued partner. All of those song ideas - which I prepare all by myself - are being finished, mixed and mastered by him. And of course he creates all guitar lines, except I have ideas before he can speak out loud, haha.

You recently added another member to play bass: Saeda Moreau. Was she included in order to perform live?

Saeda Moreau is a full member of La Scaltra, not just a live performer. Before she came to La Scaltra, I did bass and vocals, but I feel better as a standalone singer. More movement, more interactions... bass playing needs an own position in our music. Our songs are mostly built on our vocals, and it is extremely hard to do dancing, playing bass and singing altogether with such bunch of vocal parts. I am happy Saeda is with us to completely fulfil those bass lines and she does a great work, way better than I did. Now I can dance, sing along and concentrate on those parts (and nudge the others on stage, haha!)

Will the growth of the band from two to four members affect the music you make?

Of course our bass lines will be more intensive, I guess. In our new songs the bass lines are “more” than on the albums before, that much I can tell. But I hope you will listen yourself then.

You did several concerts during the last months including the Amphi Festival. How would you describe the La Scaltra live experience?

La Scaltra live is a dark journey into memories that are both beautiful and ugly. Our lyrics are written by life. They tell about pain, grief, farewell, but also about hope. Seeing La Scaltra live should be a sea of feelings combined with a little bit of Rock Music and Dark Wave Synth to dance along. Yeah, dancing with the witches! And we are really looking forward to playing in Belgium. Finally!

I heard you are working on a new album. Can you already tell us something about it?

I can tell this much: There will be the same gloomy atmosphere, but with more power, more magick, more expression and passion. La Scaltra continues to evolve and we will show that on the next album. We will also do collaborations with male singers again, but yet I cannot tell you who it will be. Time will tell…

16 November 2018: Dark Entries Night with La Scaltra. Kinky Star, Vlasmarkt 9 in Ghent. Free entrance.

La Scaltra: bandcamp / facebook / website

Lizard Smile: Wandering in Mirrors

In 2013, Lizard Smile released the beautiful 'State of Void', a mini-CD that meant a great leap forward for the band. They were always good, but it was clear that the quality of the recordings had improved considerably by working together with Eric Van Wonterghem (Monolith, Sonar ...).

The extraordinary quality of 'State of Void' made us mouth watering for more. Now that we are almost dehydrated - five years later - a successor finally comes: 'Wandering in Mirrors'. Why does it have to take that long? That is just the way it is with Lizard Smile. They have released only four CDs in 23 years, but then there’s not a single bad one among them.

'Wandering in Mirrors' opens a new chapter. Not that it is very different from the previous chapters. Lizard Smile remains faithful to their recipe to mix classical gothic rock - think of The Sisters of Mercy and The Fields of the Nephilim - with danceable electronics. That recipe works, the previous records and the excellent live reputation of the band are proof of that.

Yet I notice an evolution in 'Wandering in Mirrors'. I feel that the band is more involved in sound experiments, that they dare to make more atmospheric pieces. That also explains why the songs are a bit longer. Other bands would not so easily get away with it, but Lizard Smile knows how to do it and it doesn’t get boring for a second.

What I do not understand is that the most extensive atmospheric song - with the significant title 'Noise Fades Out' - is only available as a digital bonus. The song is good enough to be on the CD and there was still some space over with only six tracks. Although it is no secret that the band would like to release ‘Wandering in Mirrors’ on vinyl also, and then the space is obviously tighter.

Let’s go for a tight record, then. 'Wandering in Mirrors' does not have any weak moments with its six songs, and that is the most important criterion for assessing a record. Whoever liked the past CDs will also like this one, and for those who get to know Lizard Smile with this new one also, 'Wandering in Mirrors' is an exceptionally strong album.