Pussy Riot: Unfortunately, everyone only understood what Putin is like when he started a war in Ukraine.

Pussy Riot is making the headlines again. Maria Alyochina - one of the members of Pussy Riot who was sentenced to two years in a labor camp in 2012 after a subversive performance at the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow - has fled Russia secretly with her friend. This also means that she can participate in the current tour, which will come to Leuven on May 20 as part of the punk festival Breaking Barriers.

Maria 'Masha' Alyochina currently resides at a secret address in the east of the EU, about which next to nothing is known. The interview is interrupted twice because the police come by, but they are not there for her. One thing is for sure: she does not lead an everyday life at all. 

You managed to leave Russia after all. Was it difficult? 

I do not have permission to leave Russia and I do not have an international travel pass, but it is important that I have found a legal way. During the last week of April I tried three times to cross the border into Belarus and the third time was finally successful. The second time it went fine but the answer was no. The first time was terrible. The KGB in Belarus was really terrible. I am happy to be in the EU, because now I can rehearse. We are not only preparing the concerts, but also a statement I want to make towards the audience. 

Are you looking forward to touring again? What do you hope to get out of this? Do you think you will get a lot of support thanks to those concerts? 

I spent two years in prison for the song ‘Punk Prayer: Mother of God Drive Putin Away’ [sometimes translated as ‘Mother Mary, ban Putin’] and now, in 2022, I want this song to be sung as loud as possible. It's not just about us now, it's about the whole world. Clearly a fascist maniac and dictator has his finger on the nuclear button. I live in Russia and I protested there for ten years. My first performance, for which I was sentenced to two years in prison, was at the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow. After that we took many more actions and I spent weeks and months under all kinds of arrests and in all kinds of prisons. I'm a bit of a pro when it comes to prisons. I want people to know how things are in Russia. We already knew in 2014 that a war was coming and we wanted to make people in Europe aware of this too. Unfortunately, everyone only understood what Putin is like when he started a war in Ukraine. Ukraine is now paying full price for this belated insight. With this tour we also want to support the Ukrainian refugees and Ukraine as much as possible. 

There are many Ukrainian refugees in Belgium and the population is being asked to help them. There are a lot of initiatives, but what the whole EU is asking is how we can do something against Putin. Many people feel powerless. What do you think we should do? 

No one needs to feel powerless. You have power. Putin and his entire SFB/KGB/Cheka system are spreading hatred and displaying their weapons and their tanks everywhere. They just want people to talk about that. It shouldn't be like that. The basis of European civilization and the EU is the right to live for every person. There is nothing more important than human life. The total opposite of this European civilization is the way Putin and his post-USSR regime treat people. They don't care about people's lives. 

Maybe they care about their own lives... 

Yes, and that is also why life in Russia now is not just terrible, but three times worse than terrible. The reason is that the regime believes that all people should commit themselves to maintaining the regime. I've had to live in these conditions for 33 years and I know what it's like. Things got worse after the invasion of Ukraine, of course. Journalists and politicians are oppressed. Human rights are suppressed. Only in the deepest clandestinity can someone find something else. 

Are there still independent media in Russia? In any case, those media do not reach us. 

It's not about real media, but about channels on Telegram, which we can reach with the help of a virtual private network (VPN). Facebook and Instagram are not suitable for protesting the war. One even risks being sentenced to fifteen years in prison if one dares to call it a war. 

A few days ago the Western media reported that Putin himself now calls it a war. Before that, it was a ‘special military operation’. Can people still go to jail in Russia for calling it a war, even now that Putin is doing it himself? 

Putin can do whatever he wants. By law it is a special operation and not a war. In any case, Putin will not be sent to prison for using certain words. 

It seems that many Russians follow Putin because they only get to see his view of things. Is this true or are many Russians just scared? Do many Russians support the regime and believe all the lies? 

It is a completely different world, in which one gets to see propaganda 24 hours a day. Everyone knows George Orwell's 1984. Well, in Russia, a person has been sent to prison for holding a poster against fascism. According to the court, it is a crime to own a poster against fascism. 

That's strange, because Putin claims that the Ukrainians are all fascists and Nazis. Officially, he's just started this war to wipe them out. 

According to a decision of the Russian court, a poster with the caption ‘We are against war’ discredits the Russian army. It's not strange. It's a pure dystopia. You are still a long way from that, but it can happen anywhere. Depriving people of freedom of information in your countries will result in present-day Russia for you too. We are all human. We are not reptiles. It's all about people. With the war raging now, there is of course even more propaganda and censorship, just like in the Third Reich. 

Are both regimes similar? 

Definitely. In the West, people probably hear that 80 percent of the Russian population supports Putin, but that is nonsense, because no one dares to give his honest opinion openly. You could end up in jail for that. The Russians are only human too and we are not at the point where everyone is saying they are willing to go to jail for ten years. The people who do are real heroes. We will certainly talk about them during our concerts. It is also our role to mention these people, because in the West one hears almost exclusively about Alexei Navalny. 

The VRT – the Flemish public television – recently showed a documentary about women in the opposition who are doing their best, but most of them have fled Russia in the meantime. I had the impression that you would never flee from Russia because it is your home. 

I am currently in the EU on tour. I should really be in jail. In 2021 I was in prison six times and then we don't count the house arrest. I've found an opportunity to go on tour now and stay out of jail. 

Do you think it will be safe? Are you not afraid that they will come looking for you? We've heard a lot in recent years about Russian refugees who were subsequently poisoned by Russian secret agents. Aren't you concerned about this? 

This is not the time to be afraid. Just look at Ukraine, where people behave heroically. If they are not afraid, how can I be? The aim of this tour is, of course, to draw attention to the political prisoners. We want to show the people in the West that there are other people in Russia, with a different outlook on life and a different background. They are now in prison. 

I have read your book ‘Riot Days’. The two of you were political prisoners, but at some point they separated you because they didn't know how to deal with two political prisoners in the same prison. I suppose there is now more than one political prisoner per prison. 

Oh, but we have a lot of prisons, you know. Russia, as in the past, is a big prison. 

How many prisons are there really? 

I can't count them anymore, but actually they aren't prisons. They are work camps. It is legal slavery. The inmates have to sew and stitch uniforms for the police twelve hours a day. They are paid 3 euros per month for this. It's real slavery. This system has been around for twenty years. We've talked about this before and I think it makes sense to talk about it again. I also want to speak with politicians in the West. I'm an insider who knows what's going on. They do not have a clear picture of what is happening in Russia. 

One of the reasons we don't have a clear picture is that European journalists don't find a way to find out what's actually happening? Is there a way for them to gather accurate information? 

There is no legal way, but there are a number of channels on Telegram. We know what Lukashenko has done with Belarus. Well, Russia is moving in that direction very quickly. Belarus really is hell, but nobody cares about that. It's like North Korea, but in the middle of Europe. 

We care about that situation, but we don't really know what to do about it. Putin still has nuclear weapons and he also controls the gas supply. Gas prices are skyrocketing. The EU would like to ban Russian gas, but has nothing to replace that Russian supply with. Putin could shut down the gas pipelines at any time and European leaders are also concerned about nuclear war. What do you think about this? 

If everyone stays scared, the price will always get higher and higher. If the current sanctions had already been taken in January this year, there would be less blood spilled now. It was late then too, but now it's all worse and it could get a lot worse. As for potential sanctions, Navalny's team has drawn up a list of 6,000 names. Navalny has an incredible team fighting corruption like real lions. The EU should use this list. 

The bank accounts of many wealthy Russians have already been blocked. They can no longer travel. 

Now there are about twenty oligarchs, but there are 6,000 names on the list. That list is really worth it. 

Are there any Russians who support Putin and, if so, why are they doing so? 

You have seen Donald Trump and his supporters. More or less the same is happening in Russia, but with new imperialist ambitions. The propaganda is doing its job. Officially we are fighting the fascists. They use an old template for this and refer to the victory in the Second World War. We are told 24 hours a day that we are fighting for the cause and against the Nazis. We must not forget that Stalin is Putin's role model. He does not compare himself to Lenin, Brezhnev or Khrushchev. He follows the Stalinist model. 

____________________________

On Friday 20 May 2022, Pussy Riot will perform 'Pussy Riot presents: Riot Days' in music center Het Depot in Leuven, a musical and theatrical journey through their arrests, show trials and prison sentences, supplemented with poignant comments on the current situation in a prison of more than 17 million square kilometers. 

Breaking Barriers: Pussy Riot, Hägar The Womb, Hetze, Friday 20 May

Interview by Malcolm Nix

Hägar The Womb: Now we know the audience will help us out when we forget the lyrics.

On Saturday 20 May we will meet again in the Leuven Depot for Breaking Barriers, the annual punk festival. Hägar The Womb will perform there, together with Pussy Riot and Hetze. Hägar The Womb has been around since 1981. In 1987 they gave up, but in 2011 they decided to re-establish the group with only original members. You can read how things went for them in this interview by Breaking Barriers organizer Malcolm Nix.

 

Hägar the Womb have been around for a while. Who's left of the original line-up and where do the replacements come from? Did you find them through a local temp agency or did they come with their own pedigree in the punk scene? 

Hägar the Womb formed in 1981 and split in 1987. When we reformed in 2011 (after getting together to agree the release of a retrospective LP on American label Mississippi Records), we were one of the very few 80s bands who reformed with ALL of their original line-up. We’ve recently lost our guitarist Steph but have welcomed Lorna from London band Rabies Babies in her place. Lorna was down at the front dancing to us in the 80s so she is a great addition. We also have Mike in to drum when original drummer Chris Liberator goes off to dj around the world (his paying job). Ruth, Paul, Mitch and Karen make up the rest of the band now, as they did then. All the boys were in various bands before the Hags – Cold War, Snork Maidens and Flack amongst others. The girls however, had to be encouraged onto the stage. Not one of them had considered performing before but were greatly supported by people who were too drunk to know better.

I won't ask you to explain the band name, but I noticed this is your second time around. The band split in 1987 and then reformed in 2011. Was there a specific reason to split up or did you all just have enough of it for a while? 

Thank you for not asking for an explanation of the band name as there isn’t one – which hasn’t stopped that question being asked at every interview (smiley face). We had to make up a name in a hurry because we had been offered a gig and we didn’t have any of the trappings of a band – instruments, songs – and name! I can’t say why that one stuck from the more and more rubbish names that were being suggested, it had no meaning but we have been informed of several over the years as people try and make sense of it – ranging from biblical references to cartoon characters. 

We had several little splits before 1987, losing one or two band members each time for various reasons and several new members coming and going until in 1987 Janet and Ruth were the only original band members left. It seemed a good idea to stop completely then. 

We're of course very happy you have reformed, but a lot has changed since 1981, the year of the band's official inception. What do you consider the biggest difference for better and for worse? 

Thank you for being happy, we are too! What feels different now is playing is so much FUN now; this wasn’t a word much used in the serious UK anarcho-punk circles of the 80s where we were criticised for not wearing black like most bands at the time, and for having light-hearted songs like ‘Dressed to Kill’ as well as those about heavy issues affecting us all. Now we feel much freer being ourselves. I think also that as we are more ‘mature’ now (the band has a collective age of approximately 330). We just don’t care how we come across or if we fuck up - which is often. In fact, we have turned fucking-up into an art-form, the audience have come to expect it! 

You have even released some new material, including the very nice 10” 'Hagitate'. Do you think you're able to reach a new audience or are these records mainly bought by old friends? Do you think there are still young people who want to listen to this kind of music? 

We’d be pleased if the material we have released is bought by the generation who grew up with us in the 80s but we are even happier that we have reached across generations and young people seem to enjoy us just as much. For girls in the band, it’s gratifying to see so many more girls involved in punk now than there were back then. When we were young girls, there weren’t many women we could hold up as role-models in our anarchopunk scene or the first wave scene that preceded it. We found inspiration in Vi Subversa from the Poison Girls who was older and had a very powerful stage presence; we always said to each other that we wanted to be like her when we grew up. Now we have young girls coming up and telling us the same thing – it’s great to hear that we can shown what is possible, despite the wrinkles. 

It's obviously an unavoidable issue. How did the COVID-19 pandemic affect you and your band? We all remember the various lockdowns, which weren't a bad idea in itself, but are there other, more lasting consequences for the music scene? 

COVID crept in at a time in the UK where we were already uncertain of what the implications of Brexit would have on us travelling – we’re still not certain. Along with every other band, we had to have an immediate stop in March 2020 when the first restrictions came in. We were so lucky to have just played an amazing 30 year birthday celebration for Kopi squat in Berlin just before that – many bands never played all year and the year that followed. Restrictions have come and gone and the Hags have managed to play a couple of times between them but it’s always felt like gigs could stop again at any time. Now at the start of 2022, we’re hopeful that despite a slow cautious start because of Omicron, we and all the bands we’ve missed seeing can be reunited again. 

What I find remarkable is that there are a lot of young people protesting against the destruction of the planet and the lack of policy regarding climate change, but the music they listen to doesn't reflect this. Why do you think there are so few politically motivated young artists these days? 

At the risk of sounding like the old people that we are, we have watched the apathy of younger people for decades, thinking: “it wasn’t like that in my day!” It seemed that they didn’t have a protesting bone in their bodies – no one voicing opposition, no one out on the streets or forming movements. From what we’ve seen here in the UK, all that is changing at last! Helped a lot by the recent ‘me too’ and climate change movements – to name just a couple. We only have to look at the line-up of the gigs we play, there are a number of young, switched-on bands who have a LOT to say and do it DIY style just like we did and still do... they may not all sound or look “punk” but they have the attitude and the spirit. It’s so good to see, it gives hope that whatever future we get isn’t achieved through apathy. 

Your records were quite successful in the UK Indie charts, but you're still pretty much unknown in large parts of the world. Do you think this is slowly changing? Does the internet provide you with opportunities to familiarize people you've never met with your work? 

When we reformed, we thought the internet would open us up to the world but the Hägar the Womb facebook and instagram interactions showed us that – despite being dormant for decades – we had already been opened up. Since reforming and playing abroad, we’ve been constantly surprised that the crowds – young and older - know the words to our songs better than we do! Now we know they will help us out when we forget them. We are happy that now we are more accessible through our online presence, people can talk to us and hear our new or live stuff, not just play the old records. The internet does help us reach out further afield which is great as we are generally rubbish at self-promotion. It was never an aim for us as a DIY band - we had little appetite for (and let’s face it, little chance of) Hag world domination. 

On May 20, you're playing at 'Breaking Barriers presents' in Leuven, Belgium. This is your first concert ever in a country that is actually located not far from the shores of Albion. What do you expect from this concert? What do you think will go horribly wrong? 

We expect the finest beers and waffles in the world! And of course, that you will all know the words to our songs better than we do. The only country we ever got to in the 80s apart from the UK was Holland. Even now, we’ve never been to Belgium which makes Breaking Barriers festival all the more special for us. It will be a real treat to see and meet see bands from other countries – Breaking Barriers has a truly international flavour as its name and its ethos suggest. Many things could and do go horribly wrong on and off-stage. I (Ruth) try and ‘manage’ the rest of the Hags but it’s like keeping a lid on a box of frogs – pointless! So we could have problems like keeping upright on stage after too many very fine beers or be downed by excess-waffles, or have travel problems – who knows, we’ll just say Fuck It with capital letters and carry on. 

Having seen you play a few times in the past, I'm under the impression Hagar the Womb are at their best when not completely sober. How drunk will you be during your first Belgian concert? Can we expect another drinking contest with variously flavoured vodka samples or will you just improvise some verbal abuse aimed at your frequently victimised bass player? 

Haha you have done your research well. Well, as already indicated - we may not be “completely sober” when we reach the stage. Mitch is the source of our on-stage flavoured vodka shots. He works for the Finnish church in London and manages to get a nice array of imported fine spirits. The last flavoured vodka he got us was chocolate and mint, very strong stuff although it seemed like something you could give a small child. He poured it into 6 cocktail glasses he’d bought with him – he can sometimes be very civilised! As you have seen, poor Mitch does get some ‘attention’ from Karen on stage – verbally and physically. Sometimes she injures him but she never means to. 

Finally, do you think the bureaucracy which is a direct result of the whole Brexit-scam will stop alternative British bands playing in Europe? Isn't there a risk a lot of them will simply think it's not worth it anymore? 

Our stupid government seems intent on making it difficult for British bands to play in Europe and for visiting bands to come and play in the UK too after Brexit. Its actions during the pandemic have shown that it doesn’t value culture in most forms, especially live music which has had very little support. Where we are now as a result, is trying to build back what we once had. Despite the pandemic and Brexit uncertainties, we hope that we get to play at home and aboard more regularly this year. See you in May!

Interview by Malcolm Nix

Hägar The Womb: bandcamp / facebook

Hägar The Womb at Breaking Barriers with Pussy Riot and Hetze

Hetze: We all work with homeless people on a daily basis and we try to be actively involved in their struggle.

Punk is not dead. The Breaking Barriers festival in Leuven - founded in 2016 to celebrate the 40th anniversary of punk - continues to keep its finger on the pulse. They will have a new edition on May 20. We don't need to introduce the main act Pussy Riot the the anarchopunk veterans of Hägar The Womb. Hetze – Dutch for agitation – on the other hand, is still very young. They have been around since 2017, but they already have a great reputation. Malcolm Nix spoke to the ladies (and gentleman). 

Hetze is still a quite young band. Did you have any past in other bands before you founded this band? 

Not that much. Viktor had the most experience, because he's been playing in various bands for fifteen years. He's also the drummer of Bones, an excellent death metal band worth checking out. Carla had a bit of stage experience and Dorien sometimes played bass in Travolta. For most of us, Hetze was the first real experience with a band. 

What drives young people to start a punk band? Didn't your peers tell you it's trendier to make hiphop, dance or sensitive ballads? 

No. Actually, we're not that young any more, but thanks for the compliment. We don't know a lot of people who listen to dance or sensitive ballads. We like it hard, harder, hardest, although throughout the years we started to appreciate more genres. A bit of hiphop in the car or dance during an afterparty are definitively options. What genre you play doesn't matter, as long as you do it with conviction. Put your heart in it, because otherwise it will remain hollow. The cool thing is we get to see bands who don't fit our genre, but who we appreciate because they perform well. Being blown away by a band, no matter what the genre is, is the most beautiful thing there is. Hetze is a way of showing our discontent with various societal issues. Screaming at the top of your lungs and producing noise are the best ventilation valve in a world that looks increasingly indifferent. There's no age limit on punk. We know people bordering on 60 who still manifest the punk spirit with conviction on stage. 

The punk scene has been around for a few decades now. To which extent do you consider yourselves the heirs of a tradition? Which older bands have influenced you the most? 

It's brilliant that a lot of young bands make very good music. We do our best to keep up with new music and not just listen to the classics. The radioshow Wangedrag is a good tip for those who want to be up-to-date. Just like other bands, we try to do our own thing, but in the contemporary music scene it's all about certain nuances or influences that differ from the rest. In our case, it's a mix of traditional hardcore, powerviolence and, because of Viktor's background, an death metal edge in the drums. If we have to drop some names, bands like Health Hazard, Disrupt, Despise You, Spazz, Seein' Red and Dropdead have been a big inspiration. 

I wouldn't dare to claim you're motivated by financial gains, but a bit of recognition is always nice. Does the racket you produce get some positive response from young and/or older music lovers? 

Money and recognition are definitely not the same. Getting recognition is a nice thing. In this regard, Hetze is a bit spoilt. In a short period of time, we've become a stalwart of the punk scene in and around Belgium. Our shows and our records are doing better than we had dared to hope in advance, leaving us feeling absolutely blessed. The fact we're invited to perform during the Obscene Extreme festival, for instance, is just crazy. The best response we can get is a wild moshpit and everybody in the crowd going bonkers. 

The previous question obviously referred to the era before the pandemic overturned all our lives. How did you survive this period without live concerts? Do you have any tips for musicians to hang on to their motivation, so they won't lose the joy playing music brings them in times like these? 

In the beginning, this forced time-out was a bit of fun, but by now it has become almost impossible to maintain. We really miss the contact with people and the energy of live shows. We released a split EP with Trappist. We didn't wait for the pandemic to end to release new music. Because there weren't any live shows, people wanted to support the bands and bought their music. This motivated us to keep going. We're currently writing songs for a new full album. During the first lockdown, when we weren't allowed to rehearse together, we had some fun making Hetze mouthmasks and selling them for a worthy cause. We are blessed with an extremely creative singer, who also knows how to sow and to tinker. Each member of the band also recorded some footage, which we turned into a promo video. That way we weren't just being idle and it also gave us an opportunity to promote our new split EP, which was released right before the lockdown. This might be a tip. Where does your band want to stand for? It doesn't necessarily always have to be music. 

In spite of all the positive experiences, something's bound to go wrong sometimes. What's the worst or the most depressing you've experienced on the road so far? Which lessons can we learn from it? 

For now, we've been mostly blessed. Something that could have been depressing, was the fact that a member of the opening band had died shortly before our concert in Trier. The audience then listened to their album and the whole night was dedicated to this person. All that support and the community feeling, that's the beauty of punk. By the way: RIP Tommy. 

In May 2022, you'll be playing live at Het Depot in Leuven, Belgium, with Pussy Riot, an ensemble whose criminal records are longer than their discography. The reason is, of course, that they live under a dictator who oppresses all forms of dissent. To which extent are you actively involved in protest? 

It's horrible what Pussy Riot has been put through. You can find us at protest rallies regularly, but we don't go to every possible demonstration. If something really affects us, we'll be there. We all work with homeless people on a daily basis and we try to be actively involved in their struggle. As social workers, we try to defend their interests on the local level. That way, we try to generate some changes for the most vulnerable members of society. We've noticed the struggles at the bottom are getting harder and harder. An increasingly rightwing policy produces more and more exclusion and poverty. With Hetze, we try to participate regularly in fundraising activities. That way, we try to draw attention to various projects and try to draw attention to specific issues. In our opinion, protest also means standing up and opening your mouth if you're a witness of discrimination or injustice, ensuring the victim feels supported instead of isolated. These days, most demonstrations are organized by shady rightwing extremists, trying to use a general feeling of discontent to recruit new members. 

What do you consider the biggest threat to society, if we can still use that word? 

Intolerance and social media. All too many people just believe everything they read on social media platforms. The rightwing knows how to use this very well. They operate very cunningly, and a lot of their views have become mainstream throughout the years. They create fear and polarize, which is quite frightening. Apathy kills! Our shortest song summarizes it all in just 7 seconds. On the other hand, we still want to believe most people are decent. We see a lot of groups who try to connect people, civil movements defending solidarity, small-scale actions by ordinary people who organize themselves, etc. We also see lots of young people who organize themselves and organize actions related to climate, LGBTQ-rights, women's rights, etc. Maybe we should have a little faith in the coming generation. 

It's never easy for a Belgian band to build up an international reputation. Our country is mostly known because of its beer. Ironically, your split EP with a Californian band with the unlikely name Trappist demonstrates this perfectly. Is there any interest for your music in other countries or do most of your concerts still boil down to a trip through the ten provinces of Belgium? 

 We played with Trappist in Het Bos in Antwerp. It's amazing that Trappist, featuring members of Spazz and Despise You wanted to release a split EP with us. The previous Split LP, with the German band Dismal Fucker, was the result of a legendary night at JH Sojo in Leuven, where we first met them. This led to a strong friendship and the decision regarding a split release came shortly afterwards. Next year, we'll be playing several concerts in Germany, The Netherlands, the UK and the Czech Republic. A tour of Germany and the UK are being planned now. 

That's the beauty of the DIY-scene. It's a small, but international scene and people across all borders try to help each other by organizing gigs, offering places to sleep and share contact details. Each one of us, has at one time offered a band to sleep at his or her house, organized a concert or cooked dinner for other bands. Do you have any tips or suggestions for starting bands who are keen to produce punk or other extreme sounds without any commercial potential? Which errors should they definitely avoid? Go to a lot of concerts, have fun and support other bands. That way, you'll get to know a lot of new people, which will get a lot of things started.

Interview by Malcolm Nix

Hetze: bandcamp / facebook

Hetze at Breaking Barriers, with Pussy Riot and Hägar The Womb. 20 May 2022