Dark Entries is an independent Belgian music webzine with a focus on dark sounds. The webzine itself is completely in Dutch and can be found at www.darkentries.be. This blog was created with the intention to have an additional online place where our editors can post their English articles.
Oswald Henke is angry. Angry and disappointed. In the pandemic, the cultural sector was used as a scapegoat. Everything about culture had to be closed, while sporting events and travelling were allowed to continue. His income was severely reduced for two years as a result. Nevertheless, Goethes Erben released two beautiful records during the pandemic: 'Flüchtige Küsse' in 2020 and 'Elemente' in 2021. The live CD and DVD 'Das gestohlene Konzert' will soon be added. Enough reasons to listen to Uncle Oswald once more.
In July 2021 you released 'Elemente'. It is not just a CD, but a collection of singles about the four elements of nature: air, earth, water and fire. There is also a CD with some bonus tracks. What inspired you to work with this concept?
Oswald Henke : In times of pandemic, we had to adapt our way of working. We haven't been able to rehearse much in 2020. We discussed a lot through Skype meetings or on the phone, because you couldn't get together even as a band. So I thought to myself: let's put together in one box everything that Goethes Erben has produced as creative work and content. Past, present and also future. For this reason the 7" box 'Elemente' has also been released as vinyl + CD + soap + other extras. My creative work doesn't includes one single thing, but many small elements that then result in a complete work. 'Seelenbalsam' (the soap collection that Oswald Henke helped create, xk) for example only exists because during the pandemic I lost almost every opportunity to make money and then I implemented the idea of vegan cosmetics based on pieces by Goethes Erben, Erblast or Artwork. We then created it and offered it as a product.
The soap 'Rebel' – one of the designed soaps from the 'Seelenbalsam' collection – is the representative of this in the box. The music consists of the chamber ensemble and the regular band, and the box contains old and new pieces… You will find all kinds of memories on the pins. All these things recall what makes Goethes Erben so special. All elements together result in my work. Even though Goethes Erben is always an ensemble performance, I am the artistic director and I try to collaborate with other creatives and thus set up artistic projects. I am not afraid to try new things out and have also tried to overcome the limitations imposed by the pandemic as part of the box concept.
But it is also true that 'Elemente' is available as a simple CD, but that is only one aspect of the idea behind this release.
On the release, Goethes Erben plays in two different ensembles: as a rock band on 'Spiel mit mir' and as a chamber ensemble on most of the other songs. The two ensembles also lead to several live concerts, completely independent of each other. How do you combine the two versions of your project?
I am the crossroads and at some concerts of the chamber ensemble, Markus Koestner of the regular band is also there as a percussionist. They are simply two different live ensembles rehearsing at different times and working independently on new pieces. So it is not really a combination. Rather: we can stage Goethes Erben in different ways. Whether as a band, as a chamber music ensemble or as a music theater production.
'Elemente' also includes 'Ölberg' versions of several older pieces performed by the chamber music ensemble. I love them. They appear to be leftovers from the recordings of your previous record, 'Flüchtige Küsse'. Why did you include them on 'Elemente'?
That's right, they were recorded in Ölberg church as part of the recordings for 'Flüchtige Küsse'. For 'Elemente' these pieces represent the past, which at best is an important part of the present and should also be an option for the future. We keep changing the live versions to keep them in the present. Arrangements can be made smaller or larger, or they can be left as they are. That's the exciting thing. The only important thing is that you don't destroy the "magic" of a piece.
In the song 'Zeit zu gehen', but also in the CD booklet, you criticize the measures surrounding the corona pandemic. You even say that 'society has failed'. What made you so angry about the measures? Why has society failed?
Politics and society have generally used the arts and the cultural sector as whipping boys in the pandemic. In principle, we as a band and I as a musician have not been able to give concerts at any time since the outbreak of the pandemic in Europe. We always had restrictions and conditions, while people attended football matches in stadiums or travelled all over the world to enjoy their holidays and then wondered why the number of infections increased again after the holidays. Culture was the first thing that kept getting turned off and one of the last things allowed to be reactivated.
Football in particular angered me, because football matches without an audience have only proven one thing: it's all about money, not about sport. It is about the broadcasting rights that must be served. Imagine a tour of The Cure of Placebo without an audience... Wouldn't that be crazy? Culture has no lobby in Germany, but what would people have done in these days without movies and music? I think people don't realize that until you just don't give them access to music or movies for a month.
The pandemic also had a major impact on the artistic world. You complain that both record sales and concert ticket sales have suffered greatly from the pandemic. What do you think are the causes and solutions?
I have no idea. After two years of not being able to plan anything, I decided to avoid a third year in this regard and only plan and offer concerts by Goethes Erben in and around Bayreuth. Only the festival in October (Autumn Moon in Hamelin) is at a distance. All other concerts take place in our neighbourhood.
I also think it will take months if not years after the pandemic to get people back to concerts. Some will probably not come at all because after two years of uncertainty and fear they are used to staying at home.
'Elemente' comes after 'Flüchtige Küsse', which was released in 2020. We had seen concerts with the chamber music ensemble before, but this is a whole CD in this style. And it is brilliant! I heard it should have been a live CD, but because of Corona it was recorded without an audience. Why did you decide to record a CD with this ensemble and why should it have been a live recording?
Goethes Erben has always been a strong live band and the chamber music arrangements in particular work most intensively when they are recorded live at the same time as an ensemble. That's why I wanted to record 'Flüchtige Küsse' like this. The titles 'Ich möchte fliegen', 'Zeit zu gehen', 'Darf ich bitten' and 'Fern ab vom Licht' were not recorded live. This has advantages in terms of mixing, but when you hear these pieces live on the upcoming DVD and CD 'Das gestohlene Konzert' you will understand why I prefer live, also in terms of recording the chamber ensemble. It's just livelier and more intense.
Sebastian Boettcher's compositions for the chamber music ensemble are very melodic. Your singing style, often referred to as Sprechgesang, has evolved in that direction, hasn't it?
Let's put it this way: with the chamber ensemble I sometimes hit the right notes. (laughs) Since the rehearsals here are much more intensive and complex, I also dare to expand my linguistic possibilities in a tonal way.
In your lyrics on 'Flüchtige Küsse' we can read things like: 'We all seek great happiness and forget to be just satisfied' and 'Sometimes it's just about getting through life'. How do you see things in this regard?
Exactly as it says in the text. Life is not always beautiful and sometimes fate is unfair and mean. But life is also the option on EVERYTHING, because if you don't live, you can't have beautiful things, fall in love, dance, have adventures or have happy moments. But a part of life is also experiencing grief and loss. It is important that we make something of our lives and somehow try to make the world a little better.
It gets more political at the end of 'Flüchtige Küsse': 'Because we don't believe anything anymore; no longer believing the facts' and 'arguing against ignorance is meaningless as playing chess with pigeons and religion'. Does the current affairs around corona and corona skeptics also seep through in these texts?
'Ich bin der Zorn', indeed. It is mainly thanks to idiots and toxic men like Trump, Erdogan, Bolsonaro, Putin and Orban that the world has become smaller and more intolerant in recent years. Conspiracy theories are on the rise and I'm actually waiting for the first pyres and book burnings. The democracies must now assert themselves and also clearly say goodbye to ruthless capitalism, in which only a small elite accumulate more and more money while the rest of humanity dries up. Whether financially, economically, socially or factually.
You also say that a new record is coming soon – the tenth studio album. Can you tell us something about it?
We presented X live with 5 titles on the X Tour 2021. We will present the new album live on September 17 in Bayreuth. However, the X album itself will not be released until the spring of 2023, as we need this time to record the album in a way that we are happy with during this pandemic period. The pandemic has slowed things down and put a lot of things on hold as well. An unwanted delay has disadvantages. But you can also make this circumstance a possibility and that's what we're trying to do with the concept of X.
Oswald Henke ist sauer, wütend und enttäuscht. In der Pandemie wurde der Kultursektor als Sündenbock hergenommen. Alles aus der Kultur musste geschlossen werden, während Sportveranstaltungen und Reisen fortgesetzt werden durften. Infolgedessen war sein Einkommen zwei Jahre lang stark eingeschränkt. Trotzdem haben Goethes Erben während der Pandemie zwei schöne Platten veröffentlicht: 'Flüchtige Küsse' im Jahr 2020 und 'Elemente' im Jahr 2021. Die Live-CD und -DVD 'Das gestohlene Konzert' kommt bald hinzu. Genug, um Onkel Oswald noch einmal anzuhören.
Juli 2021 habt ihr „Elemente“ veröffentlicht. Es ist nicht nur eine CD geworden, sondern eine Sammlung von Singles, die sich mit den vier Elementen der Natur auseinandersetzen: Luft, Erde, Wasser und Feuer. Zusätzlich gibt es auch noch eine CD mit einigen Bonustracks. Was hat euch dazu inspiriert, mit diesem Konzept zu arbeiten?
Oswald Henke: In Pandemie Zeiten mussten wir unsere Arbeitsweise anpassen, wir konnten gerade 2020 sehr wenig gemeinsam proben, haben viele Dinge via Skype-Konferenzen oder am Telefon besprochen, da man sich nicht als Band in großer Runde treffen durfte und so dachte ich mir, fügen wir doch in einer Box alles zusammen was Goethes Erben bzw. unsere kreative Arbeit ausmacht und was dies beinhaltet. Vergangenheit, Gegenwart und auch Zukunft. Aus dem Grund ist die Elemente 7“ Box auch als Vinyl + CD + Seife + Sonstige Dreingaben veröffentlicht worden. Meine kreative Arbeit umfasst eben nicht eine Sache, sondern viele kleine Elemente, die dann ein komplettes Werk ergeben.
„Seelenbalsam“ gibt es z.B. nur, weil in der Pandemie ich so gut wie jede Möglichkeit Geld zu verdienen verloren hatte und ich eben dann die Idee umsetzte vegane Kosmetik, die auf Stücke von „Goethes Erben“ oder „Erblast“ oder „Artwork“ basieren zu kreieren und als Merchandise Produkt anzubieten.
Die Seife „Rebell“ ist hier der Repräsentant in der Box. Die Musik steuert das Kammerensemble und die Bandbesetzung, alte und neue Stücke - auf den Pins sind Erinnerungen und all das ergibt eben das was Goethes Erben ausmacht. Alle Elemente gemeinsam ergeben letztlich mein Werk. Auch wenn Goethes Erben immer eine Ensemble Leistung ist, ich bin der künstlerische Leiter und versuche mit anderen kreativen Menschen künstlerische Dinge umzusetzen. Dabei habe ich keine Berührungsängste neue Dinge auszuprobieren und habe auch versucht die Beschränkungen durch die Pandemie als Teil des Konzeptes der Box zu integrieren.
Fakt ist aber auch, es gibt Elemente auch als CD only Veröffentlichung, aber das ist eben nur ein Aspekt der Idee dieser Veröffentlichung.
Die Veröffentlichung wurde von Goethes Erben als zwei unterschiedliche Versionen geplant: als Rockband bei „Spiel mit mir“ und als Kammerensemble bei den meisten anderen Songs. Die beiden Versionen führen auch zu unterschiedlichen Live-Konzerten, völlig unabhängig voneinander. Wie arbeitet ihr, um die beiden Versionen Ihres Projekts zu kombinieren?
Der Schnittpunkt bin ich und bei manchen Konzerten des Kammerensembles ist auch Markus Koestner von der Bandbesetzung als Percussionist dabei. Es sind eben zwei unterschiedliche Live-Ensembles die auch zu unterschiedlichen Zeiten proben und an neuen Stücken unabhängig voneinander arbeiten. Also ist es keine Kombination sondern, wir können Goethes Erben eben variabel auf die Bühne bringen. Entweder als Band, oder als Kammerensemble oder als Musiktheaterinszenierung.
„Elemente“ enthält auch „Ölbergversionen“ aus verschiedenen älteren Stücken, gespielt vom Kammermusikensemble. Ich finde sie großartig. Sie scheinen Überbleibsel von eurer letzten Scheibe 'Flüchtige Küsse' zu sein. Warum habt ihr sie in 'Elemente' aufgenommen?
Richtig, sie sind im Rahmen der Aufnahmen zu „Flüchtige Küsse“ in der Ölbergkirche aufgenommen worden. Für Elemente stehen diese Stücke für die Vergangenheit die im besten Fall eben ein wichtiger Teil der Gegenwart ist und auch eine Option für die Zukunft sein sollte. Wir verändern immer wieder die Live-Versionen um sie auch immer in der Gegenwart ankommen zu lassen. Man kann Arrangements kleiner oder grösser machen oder sie belassen. Das ist das spannende, wichtig ist nur, dass man den „Zauber“ eines Stückes nicht zerstört.
Im Song „Zeit zu gehen“, aber auch im CD-Booklet, kritisiert ihr die Maßnahmen rund um die Corona-Pandemie. Ihr sagt sogar, „die Gesellschaft hat versagt“. Was hat euch so wütend über die Maßnahmen gemacht? Warum hat die Gesellschaft versagt?
Die Politik und die Gesellschaft hat Kunst allgemein als Pandemie-Prügelknabe benutzt. Wir als Band und ich als Musiker konnten im Prinzip zu keiner Zeit seit Ausbruch der Pandemie in Europa wirtschaftlich Konzerte geben. Immer hatten wir Beschränkungen und Auflagen, während Menschen fröhlich in Stadien Fußballfeste gefeiert haben oder quer durch die Welt ihrem Urlaub frönten und sich dann gewundert wurde wieso nach den Ferienzeiten wieder die Infektionszahlen erhöhten. Kunst war das erste was immer wieder ausgeschaltet wurde und mit das Letzte was wieder aktiviert werden durfte.
Besonders der Fußball hat meinen Zorn erregt, denn Geisterspiele haben doch nur eins bewiesen, es geht hier nur um Geld nicht um Sport, sondern darum das Senderechte bedient werden musste. Stellen sie sich eine Tour von Cure oder Placebo ohne Publikum vor… Wäre das nicht idiotisch? Kultur hat gerade in Deutschland keinerlei Lobby aber was hätten die Menschen wohl ohne Filme und Musik in dieser Zeit gemacht? Ich denke das würde Menschen nur bewusst, wenn man ihnen einem Monat lang einfach keine Musik und keine Filme zugänglich machen würde.
Die Pandemie hatte auch große Auswirkungen auf die künstlerische Welt. Ihr beschwert euch darüber, dass sowohl der Verkauf von Schallplatten sowie auch von Konzertkarten stark unter der Pandemie gelitten hat. Welche Ursache und Lösungen gibt es eurer Meinung nach?
Keine Ahnung, ich habe für mich entschieden nach zwei Jahren Unplanbarkeit ein drittes Jahr diesbezüglich zu vermeiden und nur Konzerte von Goethes Erben in und in der Nähe von Bayreuth geplant und angeboten. Einzig das Festival im Oktober (Autumn Moon in Hameln) ist eine Reise. Alle anderen Konzerte finden vor unserer Haustür statt.
Ich denke auch, dass es nach der Pandemie Monate wenn nicht Jahre dauern wird, dass die Menschen wieder auf Konzerte gehen werden. Manche werden vermutlich auch gar nicht mehr kommen, da sie nach zwei Jahren Verunsicherung und Angstmacherei sich daran gewöhnt haben zu Hause zu bleiben.
„Elemente“ kommt nach „Flüchtige Küsse“, das 2020 erschienen ist. Wir haben schon vorher Konzerte mit dem Kammermusikensemble gesehen, aber das ist eine ganze CD in diesem Stil, und sie ist brillant. Ich habe gehört, dass es eine Live-CD sein soll, aber wegen Corona ohne Publikum aufgenommen wurde. Warum habt ihr euch entschieden, mit diesem Ensemble eine CD aufzunehmen, und warum hätte es eine Live-Platte sein sollen?
Goethes Erben ist schon immer eine starke Live Band gewesen und gerade die Kammerensemble Arrangements funktionieren einfach dann am intensivsten, wenn sie als Ensemble gleichzeitig live eingespielt werden. Aus dem Grund wollte ich die „Flüchtige Küsse“ auch so aufnehmen. Die Titel, „Ich möchte fliegen“, „Zeit zu gehen“, „Darf ich bitten“ und „Fern ab vom Licht“ sind nicht so eingespielt worden. Das hat Vorteile was das Abmischen angeht, aber wenn man diese Stücke in der Livefassung auf der kommenden DVD+CD „Das gestohlene Konzert“ hört, wird man merken, wieso ich Live bevorzuge, auch was das Aufnehmen des Kammerensembles angeht. Es ist einfach lebendiger und intensiver.
Die Kompositionen von Sebastian Boettcher für das Kammermusikensemble sind sehr melodisch. Ihr Gesangsstil, der oft als Sprechgesang bezeichnet wurde, hat sich in diesem Sinne weiterentwickelt, oder?
Sagen wir es so, beim Kammerensemble treffe ich manchmal sogar richtige Töne. (lächelt) Da hier die Probenarbeit viel intensiver und aufwendiger ist, traue ich mich eben auch mehr meine sprachlichen Möglichkeiten tonal zu erweitern.
In euren Texten auf „Flüchtige Küsse“ können wir Dinge lesen wie: „Wir alle suchen das große Glück und vergessen das Zufrieden-sein“ und „Manchmal geht es nur darum, das Leben auszuhalten“. Wie seht ihr die Dinge in dieser Hinsicht?
Genauso wie es in den Texten lautet. Das Leben ist nicht immer schön und manchmal ist das Schicksal auch ungerecht und gemein. Aber Leben ist auch die Option auf ALLES, denn wenn man nicht lebt, kann man auch keine schönen Dinge erleben, sich nicht verlieben, nicht tanzen, keine Abenteuer sammeln oder Glücksmomente empfinden. Aber Teil des Lebens ist auch Trauer und Verluste zu erleben, wichtig ist, dass wir aus unserem Leben etwas machen und irgendwie im ganz Kleinen die Welt ein wenig besser machen.
Am Ende von „Flüchtige Küsse“ wird es politischer. „Da wir nichts mehr glauben; keinen Fakten glauben“ und „gegen Ignoranz zu argumentieren, Sinnlos wie Taubenschach und Religion“. Schimmert die Aktualität von Corona und Querdenker auch in diesen Texten durch?
Es ist vor allen Dingen Idioten und toxischen Männern wie Trump, Erdogan, Bolsonaro, Putin und Orban zu verdanken, dass die Welt in den letzten Jahren wieder kleiner und intoleranter geworden ist. Verschwörungstheorien haben Hochkonjunktur und eigentlich warte ich auf die ersten Scheiterhaufen und Bücherverbrennungen. Die Demokratien müssen sich jetzt behaupten und auch klar vom rücksichtslosen Kapitalismus verabschieden, bei der nur eine kleine Elite immer mehr Geld anhäuft aber der Rest der Menschheit ausblutet. Egal ob finanziell, wirtschaftlich, gesellschaftlich oder tatsächlich.
Du sagst auch, dass bald eine neue Platte – das zehnte Studioalbum – kommen wird. Könntest du uns schon etwas darüber erzählen?
Wir haben X mit 5 Titeln auf der X Tour 2021 live vorgestellt. In Bayreuth werden wir am 17. September das neue Album live am Stück vorstellen. Das X Album selbst wird aber erst im Frühjahr 2023 veröffentlicht werden, da wir diese Zeit benötigen um das Album in dieser Pandemiezeit so umzusetzen dass wir damit auch zufrieden sind. Die Pandemie hat Dinge ausgebremst und vieles auch verzögert. Eine ungewollte Entschleunigung hat aber dann auch Nachteile. Aber man kann diesen Umstand auch zu einer Möglichkeit nutzen und das tun wir mit dem Konzept von X.
On February 1, 2021 - exactly one year ago - the army in Myanmar took the power. The 2020 election results, in which the National League for Democracy of Nobel Prize winner and democracy icon Aung San Suu Kyi again obtained an absolute majority, were wiped out. Since then, there have been violent protests and the civil war has flared up again in the country.
Myanmar also has a committed punk community. The Rebel Riot is one of the most important bands and is at the forefront of the fight against the coup. We had a conversation with singer Kyaw Kyaw.
On the first of February, it was one year ago that the military coup took place. Back then, the military promised to hand over the power to a civilian government after one year, but of course I don’t think this will happen. What do you think will happen?
I think things are well out of hand for them. The revolutionary movement is too strong. After the English colonisation, in 1948, we gained independence. In 1962 the military took the power. In 1988, we had a big revolution, but the military took the power again. After the coup in 2021, things are totally different than in the past. After one year, people are still fighting, and they keep on fighting. The military didn’t manage well. They didn’t get what they want. People fight back in many different ways. People are still protesting, keeping up the Civil Disobedience Movement (CDM), they are fighting with the armed force and so on. Artists and politicians are still showing solidarity with the protest movement. In the past, the military could control any protests after two or three months. This time, they don’t control the land. After one year, the people’s revolutionary mind and spirit are still big.
So you don’t think the military will make any concessions to the people at this point?
No, I don’t think so.
On the first of February last year, you heard about the coup. Was it a surprise for you or not?
I was surprised, but I had also thought before that they would take the power. I was informed, but when I heard they took the power for real, it was a surprise and shock. But that drove us to do something against that coup.
What was your first reaction when you heard about the coup?
I walked around my township and checked about how people felt. A lot of people were chocked and sad. I felt sad too. I didn’t know what to do in the future, with this military system. I was also very sad for the young people and the next generation. These were my first feelings after the coup.
You were one of the first to go out on the street to protest the coup, which started a few days after the coup. How did that go?
It started on February 5. I’m not an organiser. I just wanted to show my solidarity with other people. I got a message that we should demonstrate at 4 pm in this specific area. I went to support this crew, but the organiser didn’t come. We didn’t know what to do. The media were also waiting. Many other people were there. We were confused. Should we start on our own or just leave? 4:30, nothing happened; 4:45, still nothing. When we left, my friend started showing three fingers on the street (the three finger salute was inspired by the movie ‘The Hunger Game’ and became the symbol of the protests, xk), and then everybody started showing three fingers. The media noticed it. We didn’t talk, we didn’t pull the banner, we just showed the three-finger salute and walked on. A lot of people were happy and were clapping for us. They were applauding from their flats and from the busses.
The media took pictures and made videos. I was so shocked and scared. I didn’t know what to do. A cameraman from the media told me: ‘Kyaw Kyaw, you should leave now.’ I tried to leave. I tried to take a taxi, but the taxi drivers were very scared. They didn’t want to take us because they didn’t want trouble with the police. It was difficult to take a taxi, so we went to another area and took a taxi there, and then went to meet our friends. After this, I deleted my facebook account and I hid myself.
You had to hide? So, you cannot walk freely in Yangon?
If they recognised me or other people in the newspaper, they would arrest us for sure. But we were lucky, because after we went to demonstrate … the next day, a lot of people were on the streets. So, our demonstration disappeared. On February sixth, a lot of people were showing solidarity against the coup. That was good luck. Otherwise, I would have been arrested.
One month after the military coup, you released the video for ‘One Day’. It was a song that you were already working on before the coup. It was a great video, with also the three fingers salute that you just mentioned. What was the impact of that video?
This song was already made before the coup. We imagined … One Day … a future without any discrimination, we don’t want any oppression, we don’t want any military, no corruption, no wars … Because our country has known so many civil wars. We have the longest civil war in the world! We have a lot of discrimination between islam and buddhism, and we have had a military system for so long. From 2010 to 2020, we had so-called ‘democracy’, but people didn’t really have human rights or were not free to speak. In the parliament, the military power was still there. They controlled it from behind the screens.
We wrote this song six months before the coup. But after the coup, we thought it was the right time to release it. We wanted to do it like many political bands like Pennywise, Rage Against The Machine or System Of A Down. They influenced me a lot. We wanted to shoot a video during the protests. But it’s scarier here because they shoot with real bullets. Protests here are different than in other countries. In other countries, the police might beat you and arrest you. But here, they shoot with real bullets.
We were scared, but we had to do it. Everybody was aware of the danger. We asked everyone: ‘does it feel good to participate? If you don’t feel safe, you don’t have to be part of this. If you agree, we will do it together.’ That’s the way we made the music video for ‘One Day’.
The release of the CD ‘One Day’ was delayed because people were afraid to work with you. The printers didn’t want to work on it. What happened?
It was very difficult. We knew that it was risky when we released it. It’s like walking on a string. I think: ‘they do their job, we do our job’. They took the power and try to manage it, and we wanted to release this CD. It’s not just music, it is showing our attitude. They try to show how they control us, and we want to show that we are free. They’re trying to push us down, and we are trying to stand up. That’s how we relate to this idea.
That’s why I wanted to release it, especially during the coup. It is very dangerous, because we sell merchandising and so on … and they don’t want any artists against the coup. I wanted to do a DIY-release, but because of the colours, I could not make a DIY-print. So, we had to go to a printing shop. But every shop said no. They didn’t want to do it because it was political stuff. They were afraid their business would be shut down. But one of my friends who is also a political activist said that he knew one shop who would do it. So that’s how we succeeded in printing it.
But as we keep on doing what we do and keep on fighting, we get less attention than other political leaders and activists. We are punks, we are underground … so we are not so influent to their big society. We influence mainly young people, alternative people, and some political activists. We are not as influential as people like Aung San Suu Kyi. That’s why we stay under the radar.
Is the military aware of the CD with harsh critic of the coup? Does it have any impact for them?
I don’t know. They focus on other protests, political leaders, activists, and they might forget people like us. They are more focussed on others that are maybe more dangerous and more important for them. But we are on their list for sure, I think.
You sing about the protests in ‘The Night Will Not Be Silenced’. At first, the protests were peaceful, as you sing in the song. It was civil disobedience, banging on pans and pots. But there has been an evolution towards a civil war. There has always been a civil war since the independence of Myanmar in 1948, but it has broken out in a much harder way. How was that evolution between peaceful protest and armed protest?
95% of the population hate the military. We have been in a military system for so long. A lot of families have people missing or killed. So, people deeply resent the military. When the military took the power again, this anger was coming back. But we never start the violence. The peaceful protests were right. But the military shot at us, in the head, in the body … So, the anger exploded and people wanted to fight back. Some people don’t believe in peaceful protest anymore. Because even if we stay peaceful, they will never stay peaceful … That’s why a lot of young people, teenage people, a lot of my friends, people whose family or friends died … choose the armed resistance.
They think the Civil Disobedience Movement is not fit anymore. Because the military arrests new people every night. People are not safe. They think the city is not safe anymore. That’s why they choose to go and join the armed resistance. A lot of people are joining the People’s Defence Force (PDF, an armed movement that is active since MAY 2021, xk) and do fight the military with weapons.
The PDF is a new force, but there are also the armies of the ethnic minorities. You sing about them in the song ‘Destruction of Humanity’ …
The ‘Destruction of Humanity’-song is about how the military attacks minorities, burning their houses or villages. We are criticising this.
In a way, you already answered my question. A lot of young people are leaving the city to fight with rebel groups, also ethnic rebel groups or the People’s Defence Force. Is this a big movement?
Yes, it is a big movement. In the past, the Burmese army attacked the Shan people, the Kachin people… Then the Shan and Kachin people fought back. But with the PDF, the Burmese people are attacking the Burmese army. There are now two Burmese armies fighting each other.
And I have heard that the official army – the Tadmadaw – are afraid to leave their barracks. They are attacked at multiple fronts. Is that right?
Yes. They are very afraid right now. They have too many enemies at one time, because the PDF and other groups are all fighting them at the same time. So many people are dying right now. That’s why they are afraid.
Another song on the album is ‘Genocide’. I think this is about the ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya minority in 2016-2017. You said already that muslims are still persecuted. How is the situation with them now?
When we wrote the ‘Genocide’-song in 2018, some people agreed that this was a genocide, but other people disagreed. The government, the NLD (National League for Democracy, the party that was in power between 2015 and 2021, xk), the Tatmadaw … they don’t want to hear about a genocide. They tell us that there was no genocide. That’s why we made a song that was called ‘Genocide’, to stress that it was an actual genocide. We don’t use the word ‘Rohingya’, but we wanted to stress that a lot of people in the Rakhine state were fleeing their houses and dying. Everybody knows that we mean the Rohingya people, right.
Another song is ‘Food Not Bombs’. We are aware of your Food Not Bombs-project in which you distribute food to people in need in Yangon. I’ve understood from your facebook that you also have a Food Not Bombs programme directed to the Rohingya people. Is that correct?
Yes. But we are not in the refugee camps in Bangladesh. Some Rohingya people are still in the Rakhine state (the part of Myanmar where the Rohingya live, xk). We are supporting the Rohingya people who stayed in the Rakhine state.
Yes, but you live in Yangon. The Rakhine state is far away. So, the Food Not Bombs-project must be a big organisation…
No, it is not a big organisation. We have a lot of influence on young people. They like Rebel Riot, and it’s not only about the music. They like our way of thinking, our way of living, they like our ideas … Some fans of Rebel Riot who live in Rakhine state wanted to start a Food Not Bombs-chapter in their own state. Because if you want to support our band, you should not buy the CD or merchandising, but you should just show it through your attitude. That’s how the chapter in Rakhine state started. We don’t need to go there. We can meet with a zoom meeting and share our ideas and brainstorm. We are not only active in Rakhine state. We have chapters in Dawei, Mandalay, Mon state, Bago… Sometimes I go and join, but normally I live in the city. We are now also starting a new chapter in Kachin state. I don’t need to go. I just meet with people on internet and share my ideas.
Let’s go back to the start of Rebel Riot. You started the band after the Saffron Revolution in 2007. You already said that it was very different from now, but the Saffron Revolution was also a big revolution against the military. What differences do you see between now and then?
Back then, the buddhist monks were starting the revolution. We are a traditional buddhist country, so everybody though: ‘they can arrest everybody, but not the monks’. People didn’t expect the military to turn on the monks. Usually, the people are afraid of the military, but now they thought that they were many and the monks supported them. They thought the military could not kill or arrest a monk. They have to respect the monks. But they did not. They shot and killed many people. So, people were very scared. A lot of people died. That made me think and I started making music after that.
What was different is: we didn’t have internet. Well … some people had, like the rich and the government people. But normal people didn’t have much information. We could not communicate. The Saffron Revolution mainly took place in Yangon. The news didn’t go out to the rest of the country. This current revolution doesn’t only take place in Yangon. The whole country is involved.
But especially the information technology is different. Everybody has a phone. We know what happened somewhere after five minutes. This helps us in our fight. The people have more knowledge. They understand what the military is doing. They have a lot of information, and the information goes very fast. This is very different than in 2007. They could shut down everything after only one week back then. But now, we have been protesting for one year and it is still going on. We keep on sharing information. Everybody is awake right now. We are less scared and better educated than before.
We also remember that the Saffron Revolution was leaded by monks. What role do the monks play in the current situation? I think some of them support the Tadmadaw and others not.
Some monks are puppets of the military, as is MaBaTha (a radical right-wing organisation of buddhist monks, xk). They are supporters of the military. They are not talking about buddhism. They are rather spreading nationalist propaganda: ‘we have to fight for our religion, we have to fight for our people’ … They try to brainwash the people. But in these times, many people know their real face. They are not that successful with wat they are doing. But this type of monk had nothing to do with the Saffron Revolution.
We have three types of monks in Myanmar. The first type is apolitical. They are not interested in any politics. They just want to do the meditation, reach inner peace, and spread the buddhist religion. The second type is the pro-democracy monk. These are the monks you saw in the Saffron Revolution. They support the NLD, they support democracy and human rights. They believe that they cannot be in peace if the people do not live in peace. They get food from the people, so they believe they must stand up for the people too. The third type of monk is the pro-military monk. They spread propaganda about how important the army is: ‘In this country, we cannot survive without the military’. They don’t trust Aung San Suu Kyi because she is married with an Englishman. She could bring in English and western influences, so the Burmese people will lose their identity. They think that Aung San Suu Kyi is pro-muslim and will help the muslim community to get bigger. They want to defend their religion and identity. The pro-military monk is represented by MaBaTha.
Sometimes Aung San Suu Kyi is also called a Burmese or Bamar nationalist (the Bamar are the main ethnic group in Myanmar, xk) because she defended the army about the ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya. She even went to The Hague to tell the World Court what happened was just an ordinary armed conflict, not a genocide. Some also say that she didn’t fully support the peace process with the different ethnic armies, which started in 2015, too. Is this true?
You know, most of the people who fight for democracy love Aung San Suu Kyi a lot. Since 1988, Aung San Suu Kyi is the icon of freedom and peace. Some people would even die for her. She has a lot of support. After 2010, we were on the way to democracy, and she was released from house arrest. She had massive support, also from ethnic minorities and from alternative people. They too see her as our mother. After 2015, when she won the elections, the Myanmar people put their hope in her. She was a top politician that had the power, you know.
But she didn’t stand for the students, or for other ethnic groups. She was also very close to the military. She didn’t show enough strength. She only took decisions on things that are not so important. For the people of the big cities, it was a big change. The tourists were coming in, it was good business. Human rights got a lot of attention. The people in the cities love Aung San Suu Kyi a lot. But for the minority people, the civil war continued, the human rights abuses continued, a lot of violence is still happening … She doesn’t speak about them. They don’t hate Aung San Suu Kyi, but they wonder why the mother doesn’t do more for them. They are angry, but still with love for her.
But Aung San Suu Kyi had less power than people believe. People are saying that she did wrong, that she should have created her own army before the coup … They are angry because she didn’t prepare anything. Now, people wish that after the coup and after the revolution, she would retreat from politics.
Let’s go back to the music. I like the way you mix the Burmese language with English in your songs. Why do you do that? You speak Burmese, but you also fit in some words in English in many songs.
It’s our style since we created the band. As we write our music, the choruses are mainly English while the verses are in the Burmese language. We tried to translate it in Burmese, but it didn’t work well. Our English is not so difficult. We use a type of English that everybody understands. We also have international people who support us, and they like it. But I cannot write a full song in English. I’m very bad at singing in English. But even if people don’t understand the whole song, they understand the chorus. The Burmese language is more difficult to translate and more difficult to shout.
I have just one final question. You’re in a struggle with the military, there’s a civil war going on, there is still a civil disobedience movement going on … Do you think the people can win this struggle? Can the people defeat the military?
I don’t know what will happen. I’m not a politician. But I strongly believe that if we fight every day, we must win for sure. Also, we are already winning. People keep fighting and are believing in it. And the military, the Tatmadaw, are scared. Even if they have guns, they still fear us. So, we have already won. We’re doing what we believe in every day. They are doing what they’re fearing every day. We have a lot of artists defying the military. I cannot predict the future, but if we keep doing what we believe in, we will win one day.
Is there anything else you want to say?
It’s not only Myanmar that faces problems. There are problems in every country. But our problems are bigger. People are getting killed. This military must disappear. That is our duty. Don’t look only at Myanmar. We are just a small part of the world. Don’t fight only for Myanmar, but for all people everywhere. We know no nations, no borders. We are one world. If we succeed in our struggle, we will also fight for your part of the world one day. All human people must show solidarity.
